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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 25 Jun 16 9.53pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 It's not democratic when people have been hoodwinked before casting their vote. It's manipulation. "Politicians telling lies" shock horror. People are capable of thinking for themselves, you know. My sour grapes comment stands. Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
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Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 25 Jun 16 9.53pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

It's not democratic when people have been hoodwinked before casting their vote. It's manipulation.

"Politicians telling lies" shock horror. People are capable of thinking for themselves, you know.

My sour grapes comment stands.

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 25 Jun 16 9.53pm
Originally posted by Mapletree Trying to grasp your point here Rudi Are you saying Boris will throw the leadership contest on purpose to avoid taking on the mantle? The article indicates nobody wants to take on this amount of hassle. Who would like to be the one that presides over the exit of Scotland? Well maybe a back bencher with nothing to lose. But Boris may well be too savvy to get tangled up in this. My point is that 1. Dave hasn't tried to stitch anyone up but resigned because his position is and will become more and more untenable after the changing of his stance and the exaggeration and BS (yes there was on both sides). 2. Sensibly, there needs to be a leader to kick start this 2 year process. As a new leader takes months and an election takes longer (although I'd like to see article 50 started after the leadership has been decided and not after an election), does anyone apart from remainers think it's wise to waste x months of a vital 2 years because a)the Guardian thinks we should, or b) cowardly bullies like Juncker think we should because he thinks he should make an example of us. 3. There will be 2 final candidates for tory leader. They all need to consider families, party support etc. Any candidates are as important as Boris. Boris assuming responsibility without the backing of his party, papers, sorry, bog roll like the Guardian would question his arrogance. In fact they'll do that without an election and waste nearly a year of the 2 years of article 50. They need to hold their nerve and ignore this cr&p, see how willing to play hard ball the Germans and French are so close to General Elections. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 25 Jun 16 9.53pm

Originally posted by Mapletree

Trying to grasp your point here Rudi

Are you saying Boris will throw the leadership contest on purpose to avoid taking on the mantle?

The article indicates nobody wants to take on this amount of hassle. Who would like to be the one that presides over the exit of Scotland? Well maybe a back bencher with nothing to lose. But Boris may well be too savvy to get tangled up in this.

My point is that

1. Dave hasn't tried to stitch anyone up but resigned because his position is and will become more and more untenable after the changing of his stance and the exaggeration and BS (yes there was on both sides).

2. Sensibly, there needs to be a leader to kick start this 2 year process. As a new leader takes months and an election takes longer (although I'd like to see article 50 started after the leadership has been decided and not after an election), does anyone apart from remainers think it's wise to waste x months of a vital 2 years because a)the Guardian thinks we should, or b) cowardly bullies like Juncker think we should because he thinks he should make an example of us.

3. There will be 2 final candidates for tory leader. They all need to consider families, party support etc. Any candidates are as important as Boris. Boris assuming responsibility without the backing of his party, papers, sorry, bog roll like the Guardian would question his arrogance. In fact they'll do that without an election and waste nearly a year of the 2 years of article 50. They need to hold their nerve and ignore this cr&p, see how willing to play hard ball the Germans and French are so close to General Elections.

COYP

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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 25 Jun 16 9.54pm
Originally posted by minted Originally posted by Cucking Funt I wonder if you'd have called 'foul' or been so anxious for a rerun had Remain won by a similar margin. This bothered me right from the day the referendum was called, but don't trust me, have a look for it. Have a look for it bothering you? Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
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Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 25 Jun 16 9.54pm

Originally posted by minted

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

I wonder if you'd have called 'foul' or been so anxious for a rerun had Remain won by a similar margin.

This bothered me right from the day the referendum was called, but don't trust me, have a look for it.

Have a look for it bothering you?

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 25 Jun 16 9.59pm
Originally posted by Cucking Funt I'd humbly suggest that BJ was not expecting a win but a (very) narrow Remain vote, hoping to hole Cameron below the waterline, let him limp on for a couple of years (or let Cameron resign and allow a caretaker to come in), leaving him free to go for the leadership in a few years' time. I think the Conservatives are in unplanned territory and actually haven't got a clue what the next move is. I make you right. I think everyone apart from those who voted was surprised by the result.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 25 Jun 16 9.59pm

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

I'd humbly suggest that BJ was not expecting a win but a (very) narrow Remain vote, hoping to hole Cameron below the waterline, let him limp on for a couple of years (or let Cameron resign and allow a caretaker to come in), leaving him free to go for the leadership in a few years' time.

I think the Conservatives are in unplanned territory and actually haven't got a clue what the next move is.

I make you right.
I think everyone apart from those who voted was surprised by the result.

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Kermit8 Hevon 25 Jun 16 10.03pm
Originally posted by Cucking Funt "Politicians telling lies" shock horror. People are capable of thinking for themselves, you know. My sour grapes comment stands. Hmmmm..your sudden faith in your fellow man is a tad suspicious. More bitter than sour Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 25 Jun 16 10.03pm

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

"Politicians telling lies" shock horror. People are capable of thinking for themselves, you know.

My sour grapes comment stands.

Hmmmm..your sudden faith in your fellow man is a tad suspicious.

More bitter than sour

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 25 Jun 16 10.03pm
Originally posted by Cucking Funt I'd humbly suggest that BJ was not expecting a win but a (very) narrow Remain vote, hoping to hole Cameron below the waterline, let him limp on for a couple of years (or let Cameron resign and allow a caretaker to come in), leaving him free to go for the leadership in a few years' time. I think the Conservatives are in unplanned territory and actually haven't got a clue what the next move is. I agree with this but after the next move I'd say the leave office will be determined to actually leave. They will be considering all eventualities. Those they choose and those the tory party or parliament tries to thrust upon them. How credible will the tories be if Brexit is torn up? How many marginal constituencies will vote anything but tory?UKIP for a start. How soon will Corbyn or Hilary Benn become PM? COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 25 Jun 16 10.03pm

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

I think the Conservatives are in unplanned territory and actually haven't got a clue what the next move is.

I agree with this but after the next move I'd say the leave office will be determined to actually leave. They will be considering all eventualities. Those they choose and those the tory party or parliament tries to thrust upon them. How credible will the tories be if Brexit is torn up? How many marginal constituencies will vote anything but tory?UKIP for a start. How soon will Corbyn or Hilary Benn become PM?

COYP

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 25 Jun 16 10.07pm
Originally posted by nickgusset I make you right. I think everyone apart from those who went round Northern towns and cities speaking to the traditional Labour voters were surprised by the result. EFA. Add to that people who do not appear on polls. Self employed people out on the road, site etc, not on computers during the day. People without home phones. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 25 Jun 16 10.07pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

I make you right.
I think everyone apart from those who went round Northern towns and cities speaking to the traditional Labour voters were surprised by the result.

EFA.

Add to that people who do not appear on polls. Self employed people out on the road, site etc, not on computers during the day. People without home phones.

COYP

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 25 Jun 16 10.08pm
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman I agree with this but after the next move I'd say the leave office will be determined to actually leave. They will be considering all eventualities. Those they choose and those the tory party or parliament tries to thrust upon them. How credible will the tories be if Brexit is torn up? How many marginal constituencies will vote anything but tory?UKIP for a start. How soon will Corbyn or Hilary Benn become PM? It does beg the question, why no plan formulated if leave won? Also, Gilbert and George have let themselves go... Attachment: gilbert and george.jpg (14.00Kb)
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 25 Jun 16 10.08pm

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

It does beg the question, why no plan formulated if leave won?

Also, Gilbert and George have let themselves go...

Attachment: gilbert and george.jpg (14.00Kb)

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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 25 Jun 16 10.08pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 Hmmmm..your sudden faith in your fellow man is a tad suspicious. More bitter than sour I'm just saying, Kermie, that if you're going to question the outcome of this referendum on the grounds that politicians misled people, then we might just as wll invalidate every General Election since ever. Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
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Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 25 Jun 16 10.08pm

Originally posted by Kermit8

Hmmmm..your sudden faith in your fellow man is a tad suspicious.

More bitter than sour

I'm just saying, Kermie, that if you're going to question the outcome of this referendum on the grounds that politicians misled people, then we might just as wll invalidate every General Election since ever.

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 25 Jun 16 10.16pm
Originally posted by nickgusset I make you right. I think everyone apart from those who voted was surprised by the result. I think the vast majority of those who voted were surprised by the vote. All of the 48% voting remain, most of those voting leave as a protest and many of those voting leave because they really believed it. The conclusion has to be that there just is no consensus and a second referendum to check what the people really want is essential. This is just too important to play games and jump on soap boxes. If leave are really sure they are right, what is there they have to be scared of? The politicians need to stand up and do their democratic duty. Edited by Wisbech Eagle (25 Jun 2016 10.16pm) For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 25 Jun 16 10.16pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

I make you right.
I think everyone apart from those who voted was surprised by the result.

I think the vast majority of those who voted were surprised by the vote. All of the 48% voting remain, most of those voting leave as a protest and many of those voting leave because they really believed it.

The conclusion has to be that there just is no consensus and a second referendum to check what the people really want is essential. This is just too important to play games and jump on soap boxes.

If leave are really sure they are right, what is there they have to be scared of?

The politicians need to stand up and do their democratic duty.

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (25 Jun 2016 10.16pm)

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 25 Jun 16 10.19pm
Originally posted by nickgusset It does beg the question, why no plan formulated if leave won? Also, Gilbert and George have let themselves go... Probably reasons such as: Can't assume leadership of 300 MP's. Need that to lay out plans. Or lay out plans for backing. A lot of negotiating to be done. If you drew a flow chart of that process with yes or no branches and tried to present it, you couldn't. The allowing of freedom of movement doesn't please me but I'd take leaving the EU anyway. We can't change anything from within and after voting in or out and begging back in we've no influence left. It'll be over within a decade or 2 so being out will be a cleaner exit without charges for defaults and poor fiscal policies. Ask Paul Mason, he wanted out but couldn't vote for Boris and the Gover. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 25 Jun 16 10.19pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

It does beg the question, why no plan formulated if leave won?

Also, Gilbert and George have let themselves go...

Probably reasons such as:

Can't assume leadership of 300 MP's. Need that to lay out plans. Or lay out plans for backing.

A lot of negotiating to be done. If you drew a flow chart of that process with yes or no branches and tried to present it, you couldn't.

The allowing of freedom of movement doesn't please me but I'd take leaving the EU anyway. We can't change anything from within and after voting in or out and begging back in we've no influence left. It'll be over within a decade or 2 so being out will be a cleaner exit without charges for defaults and poor fiscal policies. Ask Paul Mason, he wanted out but couldn't vote for Boris and the Gover.

COYP

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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 25 Jun 16 10.19pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I think the vast majority of those who voted were surprised by the vote. All of the 48% voting remain, most of those voting leave as a protest and many of those voting leave because they really believed it. The conclusion has to be that there just is no consensus and a second referendum to check what the people really want is essential. This is just too important to play games and jump on soap boxes. If leave are really sure they are right, what is there they have to be scared of? The politicians need to stand up and do their democratic duty. Edited by Wisbech Eagle (25 Jun 2016 10.16pm) Leave already has a mandate. No need to ask again. Or should we just keep having referenda until we get a different result? You seem to have scant respect for democracy. Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
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Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 25 Jun 16 10.19pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

The conclusion has to be that there just is no consensus and a second referendum to check what the people really want is essential. This is just too important to play games and jump on soap boxes.

If leave are really sure they are right, what is there they have to be scared of?

The politicians need to stand up and do their democratic duty.

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (25 Jun 2016 10.16pm)

Leave already has a mandate. No need to ask again. Or should we just keep having referenda until we get a different result?

You seem to have scant respect for democracy.

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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