On what do you base this assertion? There are some very corrupt countries, where control is in the hands of mob gangs and oligarchs and the law means nothing, unless you pay the judge. I have lived in one, and Russia itself is another. I have no idea whether there is a scale of corruption which ranks countries, but obviously you must have access to one, or you could not make that statement. Please share.

Notwithstanding whether it's true, or not, it's a red herring anyway. Russia invaded Ukraine on a pretext to regain control over territory it lost when the USSR failed. That's the only important issue to keep in focus. Everything else is illogical and inappropriate apologetics.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

We get laughably crow barred in ideas that Zelensky's regime is going to be warped by Western influence into pushing 'degeneracy into its mainly socially conservative nation.....exactly the same as happened to ours' and in the same breath that it's rife with far right nazis and criminal gangs and is alien from the West. Ultimately, some spend more time attacking Ukraine and have greater stated concern with what they think the West may bring to it than they do the impact of a barbaric, invading army.

Torn allegiance to the modern day West is clearly behind much of the 'from the off' hyper criticism of the West in this conflict - as well as the degree of deference and benefit of the doubt given to relentless Kremlin propoganda. W12 especially has all but lost it in terms of his nauseatingly unquestioning attitude toward Russia's conduct. Posting and treating as gospel a Kremlin mouthpiece Brit interrogating a cuffed prisoner telling him to confirm (falsely) that he's a mercenary while informing him that he's likely to be put to death is about as far gone as it gets.

But beyond the noise, I do think that there is no 'easy win' for Russia or Ukraine to be had, and that while ground may be gained for Russia it has come at a heavy cost. Ultimately I believe that heavy cost, in terms of financial, military equipment and lives lost will result in a deal of sorts with there being no perfect outcome for any party, but one that moved beyond this to semi normalised relations. That may end up being what comes about and works. We can but hope.

Edited by BlueJay (12 Jun 2022 1.07am)

I've based that assertion on a couple of months of looking into this stuff.

There you go again asking me to do research for you. I can't remember all the sodding sites I've looked at. Look yourself it's not hard to find out about corruption levels in different countries.

It's all a joke with you. I had to painfully prove to you....despite your constant denials.....that Russia had been promised that Nato wouldn't expand east back in the ninties....and even though the documents are published and freely available you kept up your denials.....waste of time.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Yet you asked me 'Why does it matter to you so much?'!

Ukrainians flock to beaches in and soak up the sun on the banks of the Dnieper.. - [Link]

Clearly the country and potentially Kyiv are still in jeopardy, but it pays to consider that without help from the West these scenes would not be happening. The Capital would either be levelled or under the control of an oppressive Russian invader with the stated aim of snuffing out Ukranian identity and objection to Russian aggression.

Western help has bought time and focused Russian attention elsewhere, leaving room and time to still negotiate a peace deal - and limiting gains due to the military limitations on a wider operation. If the whole country had been besieged (effectively the preference of some) I fail to see how that wouldn't come with its own set of significant problems too. There are no easy answers or set in stone outcomes where multiple parties have their own long term plans and motivations.

Edited by BlueJay (12 Jun 2022 11.57am)

Corruption is a fact of life I'm afraid, but I don't see that the Ukraine stood out like that.

Try the UK, in particular the City of London, where the world's dirty money gets cleared up, or should I say, re-cycled.