Oh it happened and, just as with Truss, the consequences that were seen and predicted by many “grown ups” have come to pass.

Much of what is hurting us now was not anyone’s fault, but Brexit was an avoidable additional burden.

I am hearing a lot of chatter about the need to revisit Brexit, some to reverse completely, other to renegotiate the agreement. I always thought it would happen but not so soon.

How long before we have.a 1000 page thread on the subject?

[Link]

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (24 Oct 2022 9.38pm)

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

You have made many sensible posts, but recently you've appeared particularly annoyed with leavers.....Yes, there were multiple reasons why someone might vote leave, however you and I know that the majority voted leave due to immigration.

You don't think that was a valid reason when I do....you seem to think that was because people were thick, when I can point to leavers who gave that reason like the historian Niall Ferguson...hardly a racist and hardly dim (not that these accusations particularly bother me) anyway it's pretty hard to call Niall a racist as he married a celebrated African (he regarded Brexit as an opportunity to limit Islamic immigration).

When you look at immigration into the EU, it's no longer guaranteed European due to their own immigration policies...we only need to look at what's happening in France and Sweden.

Not taking the opportunity to....well, give our own politicians the power to control our borders (I know, it's a farce because they didn't and won't) would have been the British missing an opportunity that they would not be given again.

If we had voted remain, all the EU philes would have said, 'look, the UK public have embraced the EU, no problems) Look at how Merkel treated Cameron when he asked for wiggle room on 'freedom of movement'.....No, everyone who voted leave knew that this was our only chance.

We can't help it if our globalistic politicians betray us....we did our part.

Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Oct 2022 3.42am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Oh I know you blame the Ukrainian war on us and not Putin, but I don't, and nor do most others.

Likewise you seem to think we ought just have ignored the pandemic, other than to lock away the very vulnerable, but I don't. Given what we knew when we knew it I think we handled it very sensibly. Now is not the time to revisit all those arguments but again I think your views are very much in the minority.

So it's not a falsehood. It's an opinion of someone whose whole political approach is questionable, to put it mildly.

Both the pandemic, and the war, are events which, even from your perspective, have impacted world trade, which in turn impacts us. Effects which we had no control over.

If you don't think Brexit is having an impact then you are not living in the real world. Ask any exporter how much more difficult it is. Our exports to the EU have decreased by 16%, whilst the promised new trade deals haven't materialised. The labour shortages we are now seeing are largely the result of EU workers returning to their home countries. Now we are recruiting more widely, particularly from Africa, and the government are probably going to have to open the taps some more. Which won't go down well with those who want immigration reduced, although that group has shrunk significantly since Brexit.

I have always argued for balanced finances and not to spend what we couldn't afford. It's something I have practiced in my private life. I have never borrowed for anything, other than a mortgage for my home and businesses, which were well secured by property. I always lived within my means. Right now I have no debts at all. I would like us all to do the same, and learn to be happy with less, so that we bequeath our children and grandchildren a decent future. However, sometimes emergencies occur which demand you step outside your normal limits. Then you must accept some short-term limits to your life to recover. The pandemic was one such emergency.

The government couldn't have avoided the pandemic. Or, in my opinion, the war. They could have avoided Brexit, which even the most enthusiastic advocate knew would damage us, but argued it was worthwhile as it "gave us back control". It hasn't. We are more out of control than ever we were within the EU.

All of us who live lives of relative comfort and extravagance, compared to past generations, are likely to have to learn to be content with less. We need our government to be straight with us, and for the political blame games and promises of golden dawns to be set aside by a mature, responsible opposition. Whether they can do that remains to be seen.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

But the Brexit deal was arranged by MPs. That's their job. Our job is to accept their decisions. Or is that only the case when you agree with their decisions?

I have consistently argued that the MPs failed to do their job when they accepted Brexit against their collective consciousnesses. That we have no legal
option other than to accept the decision doesn’t mean it’s above criticism.

In particular I objected to the way those who did try to do their duty and refused to be forced to go along with something they disagreed with, were treated.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Bye bye Jacob- it was fun- hope we never see you on our screens again!