It’s the sheer stupidity that makes me angry

Yeah you got me there! Smart guy.

There you go - it's all out fault - 'completely avoidable' - poor old Putin was provoked. W12 has been completely supportive of Russia and completely critical of Ukraine and the West.
Why does it matter so much to me? I don't like seeing fascists invading other peoples' countries and the accompanying killing of civillians and the deliberate destruction of their towns and cities. It matters to most people.

"Vladimir Putin has compared himself to the 18th-century Russian tsar Peter the Great, drawing a parallel between what he portrayed as their twin historic quests to win back Russian lands.

“Peter the Great waged the great northern war for 21 years. It would seem that he was at war with Sweden, he took something from them. He did not take anything from them, he returned [what was Russia’s],” the Russian president said on Thursday after a visiting an exhibition dedicated to the tsar."

As for further Russian territorial expansion, he added "It's impossible - do you understand? - impossible to build a fence around a country like Russia. And we do not intend to build that fence".

Just because something comes at a cost, it doesn't follow that making it easy for Russia from day one is or was the right move.

Edited by BlueJay (10 Jun 2022 11.52am)

There you go again, saying something that just wasn't said.

There were other options open to Putin, why try to paint a position that isn't being taken? It seems that you want to play 'goodies and baddies' like it's a reality.

Besides I was talking about the cold war, which seemed to have completely passed you by.

In terms of the physical war's causes, if you think that this all sprung up out of nowhere then I just don't know what to say to you.

Also, do you really have to use the word 'fascist' like a 60s hippy? Aren't you aware it's an actual political system?

Russia is not a fascist state and if your criteria for fascism is the killing of civilians and invading countries then I have to wonder where you have been for the last thirty years.

Edited by Stirlingsays (10 Jun 2022 1.13pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Political systems actually have tenets, from communism to fascism....which are related in some ideas but very different in others.

It isn't, 'oh, this is a bad guy, errr...fascist'.

That's just like a Sun headline level of observation.

Russia is not a state that I agree with or would like to live in because opposition to ideas and free speech isn't fairly handled and Putin seems to essentially be like a mafia boss. They are a separate power structure that contains all the usual cronyism and corruption that elitism creates.

But this isn't teenage 'goodies and baddies', though the level of discussion can seem that way.

That's one positive difference I'll give Putin....if you watch his speeches to reporters (no normies do that of course) or the public he doesn't treat the public like children like western politicians tend too....especially Biden.

Edited by Stirlingsays (10 Jun 2022 1.58pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)