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Stirlingsays Flag 07 Dec 17 10.54am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

Centralists? The Republicans and Democrats are right wing parties. There are some centralists, liberals and even left wingers among the Democrats, but I get your point here; however there is a good argument that the actual left winger Saunders probably would have beaten Trump - similar rhetoric on things people really care about, jobs, wages, access to healthcare and standards of living.

Trump I think won, because he touched on issues that directly affect the working class - Jobs, Income, Immigration, Healthcare (remember his promises were the opposite of the repeal bill - it was health care for all and for less than the ACHA).

I have no idea how you can regard the current Democratic party as right wing when they embrace more progressive ideas than even the Labour party.

Your description to my mind is from ten years ago.


Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Dec 2017 10.54am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stuk Flag Top half 07 Dec 17 2.30pm Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

The US Democrats are to the right of our Conservatives, comfortably.

 


Optimistic as ever

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Stirlingsays Flag 07 Dec 17 2.41pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Stuk

The US Democrats are to the right of our Conservatives, comfortably.

Bernie Sanders is to the right of the conservatives?

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Ray in Houston Flag Houston 07 Dec 17 2.46pm Send a Private Message to Ray in Houston Add Ray in Houston as a friend

Originally posted by Stuk

The US Democrats are to the right of our Conservatives, comfortably.


Correct! People here ask me why I (mostly) support Democrats and I tell them "It's because I'm a European conservative". (Note the small "c").


Take Obamacare: it forces everyone to buy insurance, from for-profit insurance companies, who then use that insurance to get healthcare services from for-profit healthcare providers. The Act does give subsidies for those who can't afford the insurance, but this is taking tax-payer dollars and giving them to private businesses.

Could you imagine Thatcher trying to get away with passing anything that radically corporatist?

Edited by Ray in Houston (07 Dec 2017 3.54pm)

 


We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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Ray in Houston Flag Houston 07 Dec 17 2.47pm Send a Private Message to Ray in Houston Add Ray in Houston as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Bernie Sanders is to the right of the conservatives?

Bernie Sanders isn't a Democrat; he's an Independent.

 


We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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Stuk Flag Top half 07 Dec 17 2.53pm Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

Originally posted by Ray in Houston


Correct! People here ask me why I (mostly) support Democrats and I tell them "It's because I'm a European conservative". (Note the small "c".


Take Obamacare: it forces everyone to buy insurance, from for-profit insurance companies, who then use that insurance to get healthcare services from for-profit healthcare providers. The Act does give subsidies for those who can't afford the insurance, but this is taking tax-payer dollars and giving them to private businesses.

Could you imaging Thatcher trying to get away with passing anything that radically corporatist?

I love having conversations with rednecks who claim the left this and the left that, "mate you don't have a left - you have a right and an even further right". Never mind when any American complains to me about their tax levels!

Until there is some kind of free state health service, everyone employed gets (and takes) holiday pay and someone bans guns, it's not even a debate.

 


Optimistic as ever

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Stuk Flag Top half 07 Dec 17 2.59pm Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

Bernie Sanders isn't a Democrat; he's an Independent.

Yep.

 


Optimistic as ever

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Ray in Houston Flag Houston 07 Dec 17 3.00pm Send a Private Message to Ray in Houston Add Ray in Houston as a friend

Originally posted by Stuk

Until there is some kind of free state health service, everyone employed gets (and takes) holiday pay and someone bans guns, it's not even a debate.


Just yesterday, the House passed a bill that strengthened the background check system for gun purchases. However, Republicans tacked on an NRA-backed provision to eliminate restrictions on carrying concealed weapons across state lines - and then passed that using their majority.

This bill - that would override any state's preference as to the permitting of concealed carry - will die in the Senate, but it just shows how gun reform is impossible currently. A sensible, bi-partisan, background check bill gets scuppered because the NRA drags Republicans around like frightened puppies.

Edited by Ray in Houston (07 Dec 2017 3.02pm)

 


We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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Stuk Flag Top half 07 Dec 17 3.08pm Send a Private Message to Stuk Add Stuk as a friend

Originally posted by Ray in Houston


Just yesterday, the House passed a bill that strengthened the background check system for gun purchases. However, Republicans tacked on an NRA-backed provision to eliminate restrictions on carrying concealed weapons across state lines - and then passed that using their majority.

This bill - that would override any state's preference as to the permitting of concealed carry - will die in the Senate, but it just shows how gun reform is impossible currently. A sensible, bi-partisan, background check bill gets scuppered because the NRA drags Republicans around like frightened puppies.

Edited by Ray in Houston (07 Dec 2017 3.02pm)

You need to get rid of Sunset provisions too. All that work to get the assault rifles banned and it can simply expire, rather than requiring new legislation and or a vote to overturn it.

I can't believe a few of them getting shot at the baseball game, didn't change an opinion or two. It did in Vegas at least.

 


Optimistic as ever

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Mapletree Flag Croydon 07 Dec 17 3.21pm Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

It's a good and interesting question to try to define 'natural behaviours'. Mainly because it brings us back into reality on what can fairly asked of either sex in terms of behaviour adjustment.

Most importantly anything I or anyone else would say has to be filed under generalization because human beings are a spectrum of behaviours where exceptions to all behaviours will exist in varying percentages.

Having said that, it doesn't take a genius to connect the dots and understand that the primary roles nature designed for the human sexes was for males to be the hunters and risk takers and for females to be the child rearers and homemakers. The hormonal and biological functions all point to this. The statistics in so many areas bear this out.

While in the modern age....the west has made great strides in providing women with more equal opportunities to men I get greatly irritated at the harm done to both sexes by those who deny human nature and regard human behaviour is simply a social construct.....all based upon their own feelings rather than the science.

The half truths implicitly told to youth by both the media and educational institutions .....that males have 'tonic masculinity' and that women can 'do anything a male can do' aren't only harmful but have led to countless cases of guilt and self blame...all pushed by political ideology rather than science. I view the harm done as on a par with the harm done by religion in creating dysfunctional views of human behaviours.

It's certainly true that the natural 'hunter/risk taker' mentality given to males by hormones can and does led to anti social behaviours. But when directed usefully these same hormones have created the modern world and most of its wonders.....like most things in different hands these same drives can be used for societal good or harm.

They need to be directed....not denied or criticized as 'tonic'. Many of the great educational institutions of the past intrinsically knew this.

Females in my country have also been made to feel guilty for choosing to be 'homemakers' as if this was somehow a 'lower' life choice. Instead of being perhaps the most important job to society that a person should do well.

I think it's great that we, in the west, live in a society that provides women with a choice of professions. But I learnt during my time as a teacher that this doesn't mean that females are going to choose the same subjects and jobs that males do in anything like the same numbers and you know what.....if that is their choice...then surely that was the whole point and success of feminism....the actual feminism that most of us agree with.

I think it's fair to say there are limits to how much a social libertarian I am, but on the fundamental level of allowing you freedom of thought and action (action that doesn't physically harm others) yeah...I think I'm a social libertarian....how others feel is for them of course....the older I've got the more socially libertarian I've become.


Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Nov 2017 11.24am)

The point is that nobody knows what is 'natural difference between the sexes' and what is enforced - either through disciplining or socialisation. That is why everyone should read the seminal work on this topic by John Stuart Mill.

[Link]

Freedom is a funny thing. It can never be absolute and it is in the eye of the beholder. If you know no better then it's hard to picture what you can do with freedom. You do what you have learned to do, even if the structures in which you learned are no longer in place.

I spent many years working in the newly opened Central and Eastern Europe. Learning the new rules was massively hard for those countries. Similarly, for women, working out what they want to be when the old rules change must be very difficult. And anyway, have all the rules really changed or have they just become that bit more subtle.

 

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Ray in Houston Flag Houston 07 Dec 17 3.27pm Send a Private Message to Ray in Houston Add Ray in Houston as a friend

Originally posted by Stuk

You need to get rid of Sunset provisions too. All that work to get the assault rifles banned and it can simply expire, rather than requiring new legislation and or a vote to overturn it.

I can't believe a few of them getting shot at the baseball game, didn't change an opinion or two. It did in Vegas at least.


The gun lobby is so loud and well funded that it punches way above its weight in the political arena. That's the problem with money in politics - it's not "free speech" as the Supreme Court decided, it's a megaphone.

I think the sunset provisions included in any number of regulations is a procedural thing, as it reduces some of the hurdles a bill needs to clear in order to become law. This is why it tends to gets used more frequently in theoretically divisive legislation.

It's a fact of life politically, but it's just insane that American politics has become so regressive. We're rolling back abortion rights, gun restrictions, voting rights and the social safety net. The rest of the world is moving forwards and we're at best standing still.

Edited by Ray in Houston (07 Dec 2017 3.28pm)

 


We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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Stirlingsays Flag 07 Dec 17 3.30pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Ray in Houston

Bernie Sanders isn't a Democrat; he's an Independent.

That's not the point. He ran for its leadership and chairs its committees and without Clinton's cheating would have probably been the candidate and all mainly on grassroot support.

He represents the heart of democratic belief systems and politics today.

He's not even as far left as many in the democratic party today.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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