I was referring to Lucas' islands parable which is an economic theory, ( please look it up) that talks about trade between island economies, the conclusion being that free trade is good, whilst tariffs, protectionism and reciprocity are bad and makes the islands economy 'smaller' - apologies if i hurt your feelings but the point is that Britain's economy would be smaller

I think calling UKIP far right is unfair. They're really to the right of the conservative party, but they're not the far or hard right - Though some people who vote for them maybe.

Its like labelling Corbyn's Labour party far left. Its not, its just more left wing than tradition. It is not the Socialist Party, SWP, Workers Libertine etc.

They're not Britain First, EDL or the BNP, which are groups traditionally identified as Far Right - These are groups that traditionally have their origins in a kind of neo-Fascism, similar to how the far left parties are neo-Marxist.

UKIP are a democratic party, arguably when you get to the far left and right, the democratic system is really seen more as a means to an ideological end (more or less).

Whilst I don't support UKIP, calling them far right is an unfair association to groups that really are.

I take your point hoof but the truth is 'do you want free trade or immigration' because they are are intrinsically linked even if we have brexit as EFTA also demands freedom of labour (degree of which is agreement dependent.) If you are arguing for economic isolation ( i would admire your honesty if you were) then history tells us e.g Devalera's ireland)that we would enter severe economic decline.
Some of the right wing press may print daily stories of our public services being under pressure but the truth is they have always been, but if the economy declines it will get a lot worse. Additionally it seems to me they are trying to spread fear - i went to school during the Thatcher years where class sizes were hitting 40 per class (now limited to 30), but fear of scarcity is good to sell newspapers but can be very misleading in this economic debate.
I wont get into a comparison of political figures ad this usually degenerates into tribalism but just wanted to point out that the political mavericks i have mentioned havnt had a glorious eceonomic past -although i take your point that gordon brown is also tainted by his market timing on gold.

What !

We are the 5th biggest economy in the world ! We are NOT some "Little Island" as you put it.

In fact a couple of months ago it was reported that Britain will reach the "giddy" heights of the fourth largest economy in the world, leapfrogging Germany and Japan over the next two decades, new analysis shows.

Edited by Willo (25 Feb 2016 12.31pm)

[Link]

A year old, but...

Not histrionic in the slightest. If you are trying to skewer those in support of leaving for "what the future will hold", expect it right back at you. You will have to work within the confines of a declining outmoded trade bloc, however.

"..the same here in our Parliament" -- so that's a candid confession that where a huge number of laws passed and handed down to us is not "ours". Good. We have 8.5% influence in the EUparl, which counts for FA given QVM. 300 EU rulings per day generated by an unelected commission and rubber-stamped by the EUparl, each of those 300 taking more power to Brussels.

"Economic clout...,"
I demonstrated this not to be the case. You clearly didn't look at the data. No matter. Horse, water.

"peace...,"
Yeah, who needed NATO when we have Van Rompuy. Give me a break - tell me you don't believe that, really??

"easy travel...,"
I've traveled extensively both in Europe and the rest of the world (you know, that place with 160+ countries outside the EU?). You're telling me the EU facilitated my visa-on-arrival in Australia? In Cambodia? Are those cheap flights all down to the EU too, and nothing to do with supply, demand and the rise of cheap low-cost carriers(despite EUcom efforts with the Emissions Trading Scheme)? Can the Swiss & Norwegians get NHS cover here? In other words, rubbish.

"cleaner rivers and seas, etc...." The seas are certainly cleaner, as our fish-stocks (60% of "EU" waters) have been decimated under the Common Fisheries Policy, and our fishing industry has declined massively. And as for rivers, I prefer them dredged (as they have been done in antiquity) and not flooding over the Somerset Levels & Cockermouth. We have the EU “Saving wetland habitats: more money for key sites” directive to thank for that.

Finally, as for "solving our social ills" - as per the majority of the other 160+ countries in the world, I would like our ELECTORATE to vote in the government to which we hold accountable to solve these "ills". If they don't do a good job, we boot them out and elect another. Why is this concept so hard for you people to understand?