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Horrific Scenes In Paris

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Jimenez Flag SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 15 Nov 15 9.58pm Send a Private Message to Jimenez Add Jimenez as a friend

Quote Y Ddraig Goch at 15 Nov 2015 9.28pm

Good article about ISIS

[Link]


Yes I read this earlier this morning & have just reread it and It confirms what I thought in the first place. They are a bunch of psychotic cockroaches that need to be exterminated forthwith. You cannot have talks or bargain with these scumbags.

 


Pro USA & Israel

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miles18 Flag Telford 15 Nov 15 10.01pm

news.sky.com/story/1588256/france-drops-20-bombs-on-is-stronghold-raqqa

France drop 20 bombs.

 



.

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 15 Nov 15 10.40pm

One wonders how the cuts to policing and other front line services will affect a) counter terrorism and b) dealing with an attack if (heaven forbid) one happens.

 

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Mr Palaceman Flag 16 Nov 15 12.49am Send a Private Message to Mr Palaceman Add Mr Palaceman as a friend

Quote Stirlingsays at 15 Nov 2015 5.33pm

Quote johnno42000 at 15 Nov 2015 5.27pm


Of course one of those 4 million could have solved the hunger problems throughout the world or brought world peace or been Jesus or been the striker Palace sign who scores 50 goals in a season.

I don't like the idea of anyone, other than me and/or the mother of my children, deciding whether a child of mine will be allowed to be conceived and born.


Edited by johnno42000 (15 Nov 2015 5.28pm)

Best we keep increasing the world's population forever then as old Johnno doesn't like the idea of birth restrictions.

What I don't like the idea of is forced abortion, forced sterilization, execution in some cases, infanticide, and the disappearance of millions of female children. If your only allowed one child then it has to be a boy right?

There are whole towns in China with no young females. Men cannot get married and start a family.

It is also said that the younger population have a distinct lack of empathy towards others and are more selfish as you spoil your only child. They call them "little emperors".

There was a good report on the BBC about the recent change in that policy. It was an absolute tragedy of a policy with very little benefit.

This whole thread has been a real eye opener for me. We have seen calls for the internment of millions of people. Calls for religious discrimination, eugenics as a possible solution for the ills of the world, the rivers of blood mantra, the all immigration is great mantra, a few shut ups, your a moron, no your a moron and ideologies that Hitler and chairman Mao would endorse...

Just another day on the HOL.

This site is a gold mine for the psychological profiler.

 


"You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead"

Stan Laurel

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elgrande Flag bedford 16 Nov 15 1.08am Send a Private Message to elgrande Add elgrande as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 15 Nov 2015 10.40pm

One wonders how the cuts to policing and other front line services will affect a) counter terrorism and b) dealing with an attack if (heaven forbid) one happens.


FFS.....Really

 


always a Norwood boy, where ever I live.

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Eagle_Bok Flag Cape Town 16 Nov 15 7.56am Send a Private Message to Eagle_Bok Add Eagle_Bok as a friend

If nothing else, one thing is abundantly clear. The world as most of us know it has changed forever.

 

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Hoof Hearted 16 Nov 15 10.38am

Quote serial thriller at 14 Nov 2015 2.30pm

But I'll end this post with one final remark. The rules on this forum state that any racist ethnically objectionable material will be punished. It is my belief that racism, and indeed all forms of prejudice, stem from ignorance, and what I hope I have proved is that from the almost exclusive ignorance of Hoof's post, conclusions have been reached which at best are ethnically objectionable (Not just a few religious zealots or fundamentalists but with Islam itself... the whole ideology!) and at worst advocating genocide (we need to bring in the experts to destroy the nest!). I'd like to see the mods adhere to the rules of their own forum and warn Hoof that such views aren't welcome on here, yet particularly considering one mod has actively supported his beliefs, I'd be surprised if any of them had the guts to do so.


I didn't bother to read Serial's posts on this topic, but I thank the fellow Hol'er that sent me this extract of his post by PM.

My reaction......... how childish and pathetic.... trying to get me banned because of my hard line views that oppose his liberal views and calling me racist AGAIN.

Not content with that.... comparing my use of an analogy to that of the Nazi propaganda spokesman Goebbels speech on the final solution!

Serial.... you and others on here need to stop playing the racist card and revert to trying to convince us your arguments are superior rather than underhand tactics to try and stifle our views.

 

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Lyons550 Flag Shirley 16 Nov 15 10.49am Send a Private Message to Lyons550 Add Lyons550 as a friend

Quote serial thriller at 15 Nov 2015 4.30pm

Quote Hrolf The Ganger at 15 Nov 2015 2.37pm

Quote serial thriller at 15 Nov 2015 2.30pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 15 Nov 2015 1.54pm

Quote cornwalls palace at 15 Nov 2015 1.09pm

..but, not if everyone on earth thinks like a Nazi you knew the answer to that.

If everyone thinks the moon is made of cheese is that a good thing?

If everyone thinks that books that don't agree with official state dogma should be burned is that a good thing?

If everyone thinks that Jews should be exterminated is that a good thing? Indeed the Nazis wished to turn the Poles into slaves so I'm not even sure that they envisioned a world with only them in it.

Any society that replaces reason with dogma.....whether that dogma is religious or state leader inspired is a society that has turned its back on reason and the lessons of enlightenment.

Keep Britain secular.


But hasn't science, too, been used to justify atrocities? Throughout the 18th and 19th centuries, while Christianity was the backbone of pro-slavery arguments, the pseudo-science of phrenology, claiming that black people had smaller brains than white people and were therefore sub-human. On the subject of Nazis, biological justifications for the denigration of both Jews and disabled people were rife.

The point I'm trying to make is that to believe a religion is at fault for human vice is to think of religion as something fixed rather than as something fluid. Like all beliefs, it is something which is interpreted based on the environmental conditions in which it lives. The last caliphate, the Ottoman empire, was a place of religious pluralism, ethnic pluralism and tolerance of homosexuals, even while it shared many religious beliefs with IS. Why did they interpret the same holy scriptures and religious teachings so differently to those in Iraq and Syria currently? Probably because they lived in a (relatively) peaceful, prosperous society, rather than in a region which has been systematically carpet bombed for decades.

I'm an atheist, and because I am an atheist I view religion not in a spiritual sense but as a product of particular human societies. But to punish all Muslims is to do the exact opposite; it is to suggest that their is something inherent, transcendental in their beliefs.

That's why it's stupid to stop accepting asylum seekers after this attack on the grounds of their religion. Not only are you physically turning them back to the enemies we claim to share, but you are igniting an antagonism towards 'the West' in the refugees which IS absolutely thrive on.


Religion bends over backward to halt progress. It only yields to reason when it has no choice.
The Catholic church has tried to stifle science for centuries and Islam wiped out the great scientific progress that was made in the middle east.
We still have Christian loons in the US preaching creationism.

And yet Islam gave us our modern numerical system and Darwin was a Christian. Yes, I agree with you that organised religion is a pain in the arse, but religion, as with any belief, has both good and bad sides, and to claim that everyone who holds a certain spiritual belief is bad because of that belief, as has been articulated on this thread, is nonsensical and is disrespecting billions of incredible people who are religious.


You are of course correct in that assertion; but what i'd like to see/hear is the vast Muslim MAJORITY start making some noise against it...marching; avidly seeking media outlets such as phone in's and talk shows to stand alongside everyone else and isolate this vile cancerous minority......so where are they? How long will it take?

 


The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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Lyons550 Flag Shirley 16 Nov 15 11.02am Send a Private Message to Lyons550 Add Lyons550 as a friend

Quote serial thriller at 15 Nov 2015 9.02am

Quote Tom-the-eagle at 14 Nov 2015 2.47pm


You have had a go at Hoof for putting forward his suggestions.
Yes it’s easy enough to knock down others, however you have not putting forward any alternative ideas as to what your solution would be. I think we can all agree that a solution is required because the world cannot go on as it is.
So over to you, you have shot down Hoof – why don’t you please tell us how we should deal with the rapid rise of ISIS, bearing in mind, that only 3 years ago, most of us had never even heard of them!


Ok, my tuppence worth...

Firstly, we HAVE to stop all financial connections with the Saudis. If this means finding alternative forms of energy production, then that's fine. They are beheading more people than IS, most of the funding, weapons and ideology being spread is coming from the Wahabists in that state. Equally, the region in the world in which IS ideology is spreading fastest, the Yemen, is the country being carpet bombed by them at the moment, leading to what the UN claim is a Syrian situation created in just 6 months. For those of you concerned about refugees, well this is gonna be made a whole lot worse if the situation in Yemen continues.

Second, we need to have a far clearer set of objectives in the region. In my opinion, we should be assisting the Kurds in Northern Syria and Iraq, while also making clear that human rights violations, such as we saw in Iraq a couple of months ago, will be dealt with on an international basis. They are a far from perfect organisation, although I would say their principles of religious pluralism, radical democracy and gender equality make them by far the most encouraging group in the region. Supporting them, however, would involve holding Turkey to account for their coordinated airstrikes on Kurdish regions and blockade, and it may even involve supporting the Kurdish push for their own autonomous state in the long run.

On our part we should facilitate diplomacy in the area, invest in infrastructural development and education and generally attempt to rebuild a part of the world which we have left in ruins.

Domestically, and I know this will be unpopular, but I refuse to believe that the answer is to bring up the drawbridge. Yes, use intelligence services to track suspected terrorists, but as I have said, the people seeking asylum are the very souls running away from ISIL, people born and raised in a region in which their ideology is most prominent. For us to meekly withdraw assistance to these people will only increase animosity to the West, an animosity which IS thrives off. If we just leave millions of people in temporary camps in Lebanon, Turkey etc over winter, you can be sure that any respect and sympathies for nations like Frace, the UK and America will dwindle as fast as the health and population numbers of the refugees themselves. In this time of adversity and hardship, I believe we MUST show empathy and support to the most vulnerable, fight intolerance and ignorance with maturity.

And in that vein, rather than responding to your gay jibe with an insult of my own, I'll instead point out that I was merely responding to a claim Hoof made that Islam doesn't tolerate homosexuality. I could very easily riposte by saying that with your apparent views on gays you may fit in very well with the more extreme elements of Islam such as IS, but I will instead be mature and refrain fro doing so.


I agree with you on this...fracking is part of the solution as well (ironically).

The question i'd pose is if the US and Europe pulled away from middle eastern Oil...how would that play out?

Would it force Saudi to deal with the issue they've conveniently ignored and fostered?

Would it intensify the issues as we'd been seen to 'cast them adrift' (after all apart from Oil what do they have?)

The decision to do so would be a tricky one to make...

 


The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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Southampton_Eagle Flag At the after party 16 Nov 15 11.25am Send a Private Message to Southampton_Eagle Add Southampton_Eagle as a friend

Quote Hoof Hearted at 16 Nov 2015 10.38am

Quote serial thriller at 14 Nov 2015 2.30pm

But I'll end this post with one final remark. The rules on this forum state that any racist ethnically objectionable material will be punished. It is my belief that racism, and indeed all forms of prejudice, stem from ignorance, and what I hope I have proved is that from the almost exclusive ignorance of Hoof's post, conclusions have been reached which at best are ethnically objectionable (Not just a few religious zealots or fundamentalists but with Islam itself... the whole ideology!) and at worst advocating genocide (we need to bring in the experts to destroy the nest!). I'd like to see the mods adhere to the rules of their own forum and warn Hoof that such views aren't welcome on here, yet particularly considering one mod has actively supported his beliefs, I'd be surprised if any of them had the guts to do so.


I didn't bother to read Serial's posts on this topic, but I thank the fellow Hol'er that sent me this extract of his post by PM.

My reaction......... how childish and pathetic.... trying to get me banned because of my hard line views that oppose his liberal views and calling me racist AGAIN.

Not content with that.... comparing my use of an analogy to that of the Nazi propaganda spokesman Goebbels speech on the final solution!

Serial.... you and others on here need to stop playing the racist card and revert to trying to convince us your arguments are superior rather than underhand tactics to try and stifle our views.


I don't understand your last paragraph. You openly admit you don't read his posts and then you address him. Hardly respectful.

Your opinion is no more or less valid than anyone else even though you seem to think it is.

I avoided this thread all weekend because emotions were high. I'm not surprised to see the chest beating bravado of the usual suspects, those of, shall we say, an older generation with ingrained prejudices.

Hol clusterf*ck thread at it's finest.

 

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Ouzo Dan Flag Behind you 16 Nov 15 11.27am Send a Private Message to Ouzo Dan Add Ouzo Dan as a friend

There is actually a good argument for ground troops in the areas isis hold.
A caliphate can only exist if it holds territory, smash them & Isis crumble.

This is not Al Qaeda who operate differently.

 


The mountains are calling & I must go.

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kennybrowns leftfoot Flag Reigate 16 Nov 15 12.18pm Send a Private Message to kennybrowns leftfoot Add kennybrowns leftfoot as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 15 Nov 2015 10.40pm

One wonders how the cuts to policing and other front line services will affect a) counter terrorism and b) dealing with an attack if (heaven forbid) one happens.

I've thought about this to in the last few days Nick.... Apparently the government are increasing the number of officers on the street to provide a more visible presence.... So they should to... Just one problem though.... Where are they going to find them exactly???

My concern if we suffered an attack like in Paris where you have several people armed with automatic weapons is how quickly and efficiently the Police could respond to it due to the vast majority of British Police being unarmed.

I would imagine that the military would be far better equipped to deal with such an incident rather than the Police.

 


Don't waste your time with jealousy. Sometimes your ahead, sometimes your behind, the race is long. But in the end it's only with yourself!!

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