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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 May 20 10.25pm | |
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Originally posted by Matov
And I usually try to avoid making it personal because it adds nothing to the debate but on this, your stance goes beyond the credible. I can forgive almost anything other than hypocrisy. Edited by Matov (09 May 2020 6.05pm) I would be very interested to know where you think I am being hypocritical. I expect, and certainly hope, that is untrue and that you are misunderstanding the points being made. It has nothing at all to do with whether I trust what the government tell us, or not. If you believe that is the point then you are mistaken. It has only to do with suggesting possible reasons why they would do what they have, when they know as well as anyone that to do so is going to cause a minor uproar in certain places. They will do it whether you, or I for that matter, trust them or not. That's their job. Sometimes it makes them unpopular. Whether I trust the government, or not, is an irrelevance. They are our government, based on our Parliament, which we elected to serve us and make decisions on our behalf for 5 years. If criticising them makes you feel better then go ahead. It's not though going to make a lot of difference when they have an 80 seat majority.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 May 20 10.30pm | |
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Originally posted by dannyboy1978
I think we all know the reason. The government treat us like children, we already know the truth it's widely published In this new world off #me to I think the government have a lot to answer to and people who are complicit to hiding true facts should be named. I think you think you know the reason. I know we don't know the reason, because it hasn't be stated, only hinted at. I suspect, but don't know, that it's likely to be more complex and nuanced than you seem to imagine. In fact though I don't know for sure, any more than you do.
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Matov 09 May 20 10.39pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I would be very interested to know where you think I am being hypocritical. I expect, and certainly hope, that is untrue and that you are misunderstanding the points being made. You are being hypocritical in your assertion that we should not question the Government decision to withhold this report yet come election time hold them accountable if they do not act upon what it contains? Then accuse others of apathy because they think nothing will change. If you come out and said you don't want the report published because you believe it may harm community relations that have been damaged enough as things stand and that ultimately we should just accept that Government will take action to remedy the issues then I could respect that POV. Disagree with it but at least you are not hiding behind smoke and mirrors. But instead, you are seemingly in successive posts, telling us that we should not make judgements without being aware of the facts yet those facts are better off being concealed from us because Government only ever acts in good faith and we can change that all in 5 years anyway. And anybody who has no faith in that mechanism for change is being apathetic. An utterly ludicrous stance to take. Beyond parody. You are either trolling, which on this particular issue is a disgrace or your thought processes are truly schizophrenic. In which case you should seek medical help. If you cannot see that this particular issue in British political life, probably above all others at the moment, demands transparency then I struggle to take you seriously given what has led up to it being commissioned in the first place. You do not cover up investigations into cover-ups. And if you try to, then you deserve every criticism that gets thrown until the right thing is done. Edited by Matov (09 May 2020 10.40pm)
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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dannyboy1978 09 May 20 10.45pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I would be very interested to know where you think I am being hypocritical. I expect, and certainly hope, that is untrue and that you are misunderstanding the points being made. It has nothing at all to do with whether I trust what the government tell us, or not. If you believe that is the point then you are mistaken. It has only to do with suggesting possible reasons why they would do what they have, when they know as well as anyone that to do so is going to cause a minor uproar in certain places. They will do it whether you, or I for that matter, trust them or not. That's their job. Sometimes it makes them unpopular. Whether I trust the government, or not, is an irrelevance. They are our government, based on our Parliament, which we elected to serve us and make decisions on our behalf for 5 years. If criticising them makes you feel better then go ahead. It's not though going to make a lot of difference when they have an 80 seat majority. And there lays the issue. Asian muslim men are the problem and the government won't admit it. You know it I know it the government knows it and so do thousands of innocent girls who were rapped. Yet this report in Manchester acknowledges the truth The investigation also identified 97 potential ‘persons of interest’ thought to be involved in some way in the sexual exploitation of the victims. Intelligence suggested that these were predominantly Asian men working in the restaurant industry.
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Teddy Eagle 09 May 20 10.54pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I would be very interested to know where you think I am being hypocritical. I expect, and certainly hope, that is untrue and that you are misunderstanding the points being made. It has nothing at all to do with whether I trust what the government tell us, or not. If you believe that is the point then you are mistaken. It has only to do with suggesting possible reasons why they would do what they have, when they know as well as anyone that to do so is going to cause a minor uproar in certain places. They will do it whether you, or I for that matter, trust them or not. That's their job. Sometimes it makes them unpopular. Whether I trust the government, or not, is an irrelevance. They are our government, based on our Parliament, which we elected to serve us and make decisions on our behalf for 5 years. If criticising them makes you feel better then go ahead. It's not though going to make a lot of difference when they have an 80 seat majority. So...it’s not going to make a lot of difference but by campaigning and canvassing we can bring about change.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 May 20 11.25pm | |
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Originally posted by Matov
You are being hypocritical in your assertion that we should not question the Government decision to withhold this report yet come election time hold them accountable if they do not act upon what it contains? I totally reject your assertion. Indeed I am offended by it. What I have suggested is not that you should not question the government's decision. That's up to you. All I have done is offer some thoughts on why they might be taking their decision. The time we hold every government to account is at an election. Nothing the least bit controversial, or hypocritical involved. If you don't like the fact that they withheld the report, and the other things they have done, then you are at liberty to exercise your democratic right and help to change them then. Then accuse others of apathy because they think nothing will change. Nothing will change if all people do is sit at their keyboards and complain to each other. We need more people actively engaged in the political process, hence my apathy comment. If you come out and said you don't want the report published because you believe it may harm community relations that have been damaged enough as things stand and that ultimately we should just accept that Government will take action to remedy the issues then I could respect that POV. Disagree with it but at least you are not hiding behind smoke and mirrors. I haven't expressed an opinion because I haven't read the report so don't know enough to have one. None of us have, although that doesn't stop people seemingly knowing what's best. But instead, you are seemingly in successive posts, telling us that we should not make judgements without being aware of the facts yet those facts are better off being concealed from us because Government only ever acts in good faith and we can change that all in 5 years anyway. And anybody who has no faith in that mechanism for change is being apathetic. I have no idea whether we are better off having the report "concealed" or not. How can anyone know? It's not our decision and it is being kept internal. I doubt very much whether every government always acts in good faith on every occasion, politics being what they are. They are though the government and that's their job. We have no choice other than to accept it and then vote them out in 5 years if we decide we can do better elsewhere. That's our system. An utterly ludicrous stance to take. Beyond parody. You are either trolling, which on this particular issue is a disgrace or your thought processes are truly schizophrenic. In which case you should seek medical help. Now that really is insulting. I suggest you consider very hard about apologising for such a remark. Disagreement is OK but questioning my mental state is not. If you cannot see that this particular issue in British political life, probably above all others at the moment, demands transparency then I struggle to take you seriously given what has led up to it being commissioned in the first place. Once again it isn't what either you, I or anyone else thinks demands transparency. It's not our decision. We haven't seen the report. Those whose job it is have and they have taken a decision. They understand what the reaction is likely to be, so my own view is that there must be some very good reasons why they have decided not to publish. You do not cover up investigations into cover-ups. And if you try to, then you deserve every criticism that gets thrown until the right thing is done. Is your own opinion to which you are fully entitled. The government clearly disagree.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 May 20 11.28pm | |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
So...it’s not going to make a lot of difference but by campaigning and canvassing we can bring about change. At the next election there is no 80 seat majority. Every seat is there to be won or lost. That's the point. Not change while a government's term is in it's early stages.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 May 20 11.34pm | |
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Originally posted by dannyboy1978
And there lays the issue. Asian muslim men are the problem and the government won't admit it. You know it I know it the government knows it and so do thousands of innocent girls who were rapped. Yet this report in Manchester acknowledges the truth The investigation also identified 97 potential ‘persons of interest’ thought to be involved in some way in the sexual exploitation of the victims. Intelligence suggested that these were predominantly Asian men working in the restaurant industry. That's not the "issue" I was referring to. It was the furore that would be sparked in places that are intensely interested in this subject and have been promoting their own opinions on what needs to be done for a long time. These pages being a backwater of an example. The tabloid media being more relevant.
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Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 09 May 20 11.35pm | |
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Originally posted by dannyboy1978
And there lays the issue. Asian muslim men are the problem and the government won't admit it. You know it I know it the government knows it and so do thousands of innocent girls who were rapped. Yet this report in Manchester acknowledges the truth The investigation also identified 97 potential ‘persons of interest’ thought to be involved in some way in the sexual exploitation of the victims. Intelligence suggested that these were predominantly Asian men working in the restaurant industry. WHOA,WHOA,WHOA. It's not a Asian problem It's primarily a pakistanI problem no matter how some of the lefties on here pain it otherwise
Pro USA & Israel |
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Teddy Eagle 09 May 20 11.38pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
At the next election there is no 80 seat majority. Every seat is there to be won or lost. That's the point. Not change while a government's term is in it's early stages. But we’ve had five Prime Ministers between the first report and this one. Nothing has changed. That’s the whole point. Despite your assurance that this time it will be different history suggests it won’t.
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PalazioVecchio south pole 09 May 20 11.49pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I would be very interested to know where you think I am being hypocritical. when you are standing in the street arguing with a madman, who is the real idiot ? are you deliberately trying to divert this thread from any kind of sensible discussion ?
Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford |
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 10 May 20 12.09am | |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
But we’ve had five Prime Ministers between the first report and this one. Nothing has changed. That’s the whole point. Despite your assurance that this time it will be different history suggests it won’t. I am giving no assurances. I have no right to do that. I do though disagree. I think a lot of lessons have been learned and changes made as a consequence. History though is the only way we will actually know who was right.
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