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Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?

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BlueJay Flag UK 04 Jun 22 12.12pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Any other ideas?

Trying out a new range of teas to drink in the garden? Not black tea though of course.


Or perhaps gathering his nearest and dearest around a laptop to show them all of the instances of him denigrating their challenges in life to a group of complete strangers?


Edited by BlueJay (04 Jun 2022 12.38pm)

 

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BlueJay Flag UK 04 Jun 22 12.35pm

The Sviatohirsk monastery southeast of Izyum ..


[Link]


"The Russian Defence Ministry has blamed Ukrainian "nationalist" troops for the Svyatohirsk Lavra Monastery fire.

A ministry message on Telegram says that as units of Ukraine's 79th Airborne Assault Brigade were retreating from Svyatohirsk, "the Ukrainian nationalists set fire to the wooden monastery".

Russia has repeatedly denied shelling civilian areas in Ukraine, and accuses Ukrainian forces of using local civilians as "human shields". But evidence from many Ukrainians and foreign witnesses shows widespread destruction caused by Russian bombardments."

"A Ukrainian government tweet alleges that Russian forces killed four monks there on 30 May"

Ukraine's Culture Minister Oleksandr Tkachenko says this: "The Donetsk eparchy [diocese] of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church has confirmed that in this temple, besides monks and nuns, there were 300 refugees, among them disabled and elderly, and nearly 60 children, among them newborns."

Edited by BlueJay (04 Jun 2022 3.10pm)

FUZaj-PWAAAUI9Y.jpg Attachment: FUZaj-PWAAAUI9Y.jpg (66.45Kb)

 

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Forest Hillbilly Flag in a hidey-hole 04 Jun 22 1.00pm Send a Private Message to Forest Hillbilly Add Forest Hillbilly as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

The Sviatohirsk monastery southeast of Izyum ..


[Link]

Don't tell me. Done by Ukrainian Nazi's to make it look like the Russians did it.

NATO hasn't intervened with an invasion of a sovereign state, killing and torturing of civilians, cutting of fuel and food supply lines. What do a few old buildings matter ?

Or is it a Jubilee beacon lit by the Ukrainians ?

Edited by Forest Hillbilly (04 Jun 2022 1.04pm)

 


I disengage, I turn the page.

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BlueJay Flag UK 04 Jun 22 1.16pm

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

NATO hasn't intervened with an invasion of a sovereign state, killing and torturing of civilians, cutting of fuel and food supply lines. What do a few old buildings matter ?

Or is it a Jubilee beacon lit by the Ukrainians ?

Edited by Forest Hillbilly (04 Jun 2022 1.04pm)

I can understand why they haven't, but the idea that we shouldn't even arm a people defending their country is of course cowardly and throwing a nation to the wolves. 50 Embassies have resume operations in Kyiv. If Russia had their way early day,s and we'd turned a blind eye, I can't imagine that would be happening. There is now at least likely limits on Russian expectations which is better than simply allowing them to overrun the entire country. Especially when we consider how the Putin regime views the Ukranian identity as invalid, opposition as 'nazi', and both something it wishes to cleanse.

 

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Forest Hillbilly Flag in a hidey-hole 04 Jun 22 1.25pm Send a Private Message to Forest Hillbilly Add Forest Hillbilly as a friend

I am being a tad opinionated and wrong on a human level, but destroying these historic buildings and monuments (much like ISIS with the Christian Yadizi's, etc) is like destroying their heritage and culture at a stroke, so there is no significant evidence of the original inhabitants ever having existed.

 


I disengage, I turn the page.

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Stirlingsays Flag 04 Jun 22 1.52pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Dr John Cambbell warning about famine over both the consequences of covid but most immediately the Ukraine-Russia war.

[Link]

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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BlueJay Flag UK 04 Jun 22 1.53pm

Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly

I am being a tad opinionated and wrong on a human level, but destroying these historic buildings and monuments (much like ISIS with the Christian Yadizi's, etc) is like destroying their heritage and culture at a stroke, so there is no significant evidence of the original inhabitants ever having existed.

Much of what made Ukraine what it is, is being wiped out. That often is through intention of course but sad all the same. Russia may well make gains, but they will be depressing wastelands of their own making. Still, wait they are making said gains, there is little interest in 'negotiating' anything.

Edited by BlueJay (05 Jun 2022 2.21pm)

 

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W12 04 Jun 22 9.42pm

Originally posted by BlueJay

I find that most people are on the same or similar page regarding Ukraine regardless of politics. Ideas that are so pro Russians it's risible (considering the disturbing Russia pushed view of Ukranian identity, their barbaric invasion, and their ludicrous propoganda to get people onside) rightly come in for criticism.

Is your understanding that the BBC, CH4, Sky and the other mainstream news sources are generally truthful and accurate?

 

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Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 04 Jun 22 9.52pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Well, the west aren't interested in negotiations so what will be will be. All the actors here are seemingly only interested in escalation, politically, economically and militarily.

If we are all going to get fried there's nothing anyone can do about it. It's just unfortunate that no one gets to be held to account.

The west aren't, and won't be, doing any negotiations. They aren't directly involved. No-one though is remotely interested in escalation. That's a ridiculous idea. An excuse not to allow Ukraine to defend itself.

What diplomatic efforts are being made behind the scenes is an unknown, but they will be happening for sure. In the meantime, we need to show resolve and make sure that Putin never tries this again. We know it's costly, but the cost of not doing it is greater.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Stirlingsays Flag 04 Jun 22 11.26pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

The west aren't, and won't be, doing any negotiations. They aren't directly involved. No-one though is remotely interested in escalation. That's a ridiculous idea. An excuse not to allow Ukraine to defend itself.

What diplomatic efforts are being made behind the scenes is an unknown, but they will be happening for sure. In the meantime, we need to show resolve and make sure that Putin never tries this again. We know it's costly, but the cost of not doing it is greater.

This take is so incredibly unlikely that only a hatchling new to the world could believe it. Yeah....you know those guys who have given nearly sixty billion to continue your war.....yeah, well you know they have no influence on what happens next.

By the way, you don't get to decide what represents escalation, that's the actors involved and I'm not hearing the same things you are.

You can present your nonsense to the world all you like.....but I'm well aware that you're just trolling me....so desperate for attention that you dig up older posts just to get a rise.

Can't you find anything more useful to do with your time old boy.

Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Jun 2022 11.30pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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BlueJay Flag UK 05 Jun 22 1.08am

Originally posted by W12

Is your understanding that the BBC, CH4, Sky and the other mainstream news sources are generally truthful and accurate?


No single source offers a complete picture. Mainstream news does however operate within a socially understood range due to the numbers of eyeballs on screens, so nothing extreme or terroristic is likely to feature (unlike online). There is a reputational aspect and longevity (making accuracy at least a consideration), unlike the endless 'pop up' websites that cost about 12 pence to set up, or encrypted sites and chats that can totally veer off into the deep end with heavy crafted warped perspectives (often because that's would appeals rather than what is true) that excite their idler adherents. 'Group polarisation' at work.

There's often less structure online, and so people tend to more easily go down hyper partisan rabbit hole routes due to their own biases and hang ups to the point where they can become far more indoctrinated than they realise. Emotional crack for the socially inept and mentally unwell. These types routinely do not recognise that this is even happening to them (as that would require a modicum of self awareness that would put the brakes on it to begin with).

'Opinion' led news from rabble rousers of the Tucker Carlson and Keith Olbermann type moulds diverge from news in a significantly negative way though, as they instead push heavily emotion led narratives to those suseptable to them who enjoy 'performative' politically polarised offerings rather than actual news (indeed Tucker Carlon has defended himself again slander with the legal position that he's not 'stating actual facts' about the topics he discusses and is instead engaging in 'exaggeration' and 'non-literal commentary' - which of course is true.) One eyed sensationalist 'commentator' led news is often derivative; a glossy version of the very same tripe people get on activist or basement dweller sites online. The opposite of having a genuine interest in nuance, people or current events.

The best way to take in news is to do so from multiple sources, often of somewhat different perspectives, to form a patchwork of sorts. The main pitfall online is fear and hatred based echo chambers of left and right, that so heavily curate and skew information and events that they just function as comfort blankets for the mentally weak - dark dives built intentionally blotting out other realities and perspectives. The information is certainly out there and can be taken onboard in a fair way by the principled, but there is so little quality control that the mix of what people end up taking in instead sometimes over time leads them to places and ideas that range from unfortunate to dangerous. 'Alt media scholars' often scoffing at the mainstream, would have a point if they were not typically the most mentally out of it people you could ever interact with.

Edited by BlueJay (05 Jun 2022 11.27am)

 

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Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 05 Jun 22 8.58am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

This take is so incredibly unlikely that only a hatchling new to the world could believe it. Yeah....you know those guys who have given nearly sixty billion to continue your war.....yeah, well you know they have no influence on what happens next.

By the way, you don't get to decide what represents escalation, that's the actors involved and I'm not hearing the same things you are.

You can present your nonsense to the world all you like.....but I'm well aware that you're just trolling me....so desperate for attention that you dig up older posts just to get a rise.

Can't you find anything more useful to do with your time old boy.

Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Jun 2022 11.30pm)

Whilst I might answer more of your posts than those of other posters, I am not "trolling" you. You just post more than others, and on top of that, many of your posts demand answers due to the nature of their controversial content. As you frequently use personal insults, instead of reasoned arguments, you would be a fool not to anticipate a response. Some threads I ignore, as they are on subjects that don't interest me.

Providing support to enable a country to defend itself does not equate to being in control of it. You want to present Ukraine as fighting a proxy war on behalf of the west, notably the USA. Whilst there certainly have been such wars in the past, this is not. You know that because of the attitude of the Ukrainians, who have been determined to resist. We can not negotiate for them. We can only make their negotiating position stronger or weaker.

Of course, we also have a dog in the race. We don't want to see a revitalised aggressive Russia succeeding. We want to reassure those in the east of Europe that we have their back.

Standing back and allowing Russia to take over Ukraine was the only other option. Half-baked tokenism was a waste of time. It was either total support, or nothing. We have been forced to accept that for the foreseeable future we cannot trust Russia, do business with her, or even have cultural exchanges with her. Russia must remain a pariah, and excluded from the world community of nations, until she commits to some basic standards of behaviour in ways that can be trusted. That won't happen unless and until the Russian people themselves decide to change the style of their leadership.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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