CONservative government incompetence.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 22 Oct 22 8.56pm
Originally posted by Badger11 Agreed although I am referring to your comments about MPs. They behaviour and decision making been deplorable and yet you continue to support the idea that they should be free to decide what they like regardless of what they told the electorate. It was the MPs who gave the membership a choice of Truss or Sunak. Do you think they wanted to do that? Seriously? I think they wanted to be allowed to put their own choice into office, so they would have confidence in them and get behind them. Faced with the nonsensical need to allow the final choice to be made by the membership they tried, and failed, to engineer the result they wanted. I certainly believe they should be free to choose. They weren't though! For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 22 Oct 22 8.56pm

Originally posted by Badger11

Agreed although I am referring to your comments about MPs. They behaviour and decision making been deplorable and yet you continue to support the idea that they should be free to decide what they like regardless of what they told the electorate.

It was the MPs who gave the membership a choice of Truss or Sunak.

Do you think they wanted to do that? Seriously?

I think they wanted to be allowed to put their own choice into office, so they would have confidence in them and get behind them.

Faced with the nonsensical need to allow the final choice to be made by the membership they tried, and failed, to engineer the result they wanted.

I certainly believe they should be free to choose. They weren't though!

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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steeleye20 Croydon 22 Oct 22 9.28pm
90% of UK schools will go bust next year, heads warn. Even without the further cuts the tories are planning. If we got rid of the tories for good, we could think about building a caring and compassionate inclusive society. They are just appalling.
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steeleye20

Croydon 22 Oct 22 9.28pm

90% of UK schools will go bust next year, heads warn.

Even without the further cuts the tories are planning.

If we got rid of the tories for good, we could think about building a caring and compassionate inclusive society.

They are just appalling.

Alert a moderator to this post

Stirlingsays 22 Oct 22 9.33pm
Wisbech's faith in the elites when they collectively....regardless of what party, country or what ideas.... have drenched the west into inescapable levels of debt boggles belief. I've no idea what those buying 30 year bonds are thinking.....whoever is left holding the baby when this goes is going to be pretty fecked up. I don't see how anyone who watched that link I put up yesterday could think any differently. I think the penny dropped some years ago at the top, but they continue to spend at way over budget levels purely because they'd lose power otherwise....and all them are perfectly insulated from the consequences personally....none of them will be around when the wolves come to the door. It's a horrible fact of life that it's the innocent and vulnerable who suffer the most.....because they are the most trusting and actually think their betters care about them....when the reality is that when push comes to shove it's always been about themselves. We are all going to learn the lesson that we should never have leaders who don't personally suffer the same faith when things go seriously pear shaped.....If your sons go to war, their sons must go to war also....If the nation's finances go to the wall, then their finances must also go to the wall. If your area takes a downturn, then their area must take a downturn. When the modern world allowed that symmetry in consequences to change....that's when the sh1te started to hit the fan....and once upon a time it was more like that....as the posh guy's lad also went over the top when that whistle was blown back in WW1....but that's pretty rare now. Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Oct 2022 10.15pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

22 Oct 22 9.33pm

Wisbech's faith in the elites when they collectively....regardless of what party, country or what ideas.... have drenched the west into inescapable levels of debt boggles belief.

I've no idea what those buying 30 year bonds are thinking.....whoever is left holding the baby when this goes is going to be pretty fecked up. I don't see how anyone who watched that link I put up yesterday could think any differently.

I think the penny dropped some years ago at the top, but they continue to spend at way over budget levels purely because they'd lose power otherwise....and all them are perfectly insulated from the consequences personally....none of them will be around when the wolves come to the door.

It's a horrible fact of life that it's the innocent and vulnerable who suffer the most.....because they are the most trusting and actually think their betters care about them....when the reality is that when push comes to shove it's always been about themselves.

We are all going to learn the lesson that we should never have leaders who don't personally suffer the same faith when things go seriously pear shaped.....If your sons go to war, their sons must go to war also....If the nation's finances go to the wall, then their finances must also go to the wall. If your area takes a downturn, then their area must take a downturn.

When the modern world allowed that symmetry in consequences to change....that's when the sh1te started to hit the fan....and once upon a time it was more like that....as the posh guy's lad also went over the top when that whistle was blown back in WW1....but that's pretty rare now.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Oct 2022 10.15pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 22 Oct 22 9.50pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 90% of UK schools will go bust next year, heads warn. Even without the further cuts the tories are planning. If we got rid of the tories for good, we could think about building a caring and compassionate inclusive society. They are just appalling. Great news, I've always wanted empathy to pay my rent. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

22 Oct 22 9.50pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

90% of UK schools will go bust next year, heads warn.

Even without the further cuts the tories are planning.

If we got rid of the tories for good, we could think about building a caring and compassionate inclusive society.

They are just appalling.

Great news, I've always wanted empathy to pay my rent.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Matov 22 Oct 22 10.11pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 90% of UK schools will go bust next year, heads warn. Even without the further cuts the tories are planning. If we got rid of the tories for good, we could think about building a caring and compassionate inclusive society. They are just appalling. Only if the markets let you. That is the point. We live in a UK in which our elected representatives are not allowed to actually do what they say they want to do. Why would the markets be any kinder to Starmer? This issue is not about what political brand people support. This is about that not mattering if the system effectively imposes the 'markets' as the arbiter of what our politicians can do. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

22 Oct 22 10.11pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

90% of UK schools will go bust next year, heads warn.

Even without the further cuts the tories are planning.

If we got rid of the tories for good, we could think about building a caring and compassionate inclusive society.

They are just appalling.

Only if the markets let you. That is the point. We live in a UK in which our elected representatives are not allowed to actually do what they say they want to do.

Why would the markets be any kinder to Starmer?

This issue is not about what political brand people support. This is about that not mattering if the system effectively imposes the 'markets' as the arbiter of what our politicians can do.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 22 Oct 22 11.13pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Wisbech's faith in the elites when they collectively....regardless of what party, country or what ideas.... have drenched the west into inescapable levels of debt boggles belief. I've no idea what those buying 30 year bonds are thinking.....whoever is left holding the baby when this goes is going to be pretty fecked up. I don't see how anyone who watched that link I put up yesterday could think any differently. I think the penny dropped some years ago at the top, but they continue to spend at way over budget levels purely because they'd lose power otherwise....and all them are perfectly insulated from the consequences personally....none of them will be around when the wolves come to the door. It's a horrible fact of life that it's the innocent and vulnerable who suffer the most.....because they are the most trusting and actually think their betters care about them....when the reality is that when push comes to shove it's always been about themselves. We are all going to learn the lesson that we should never have leaders who don't personally suffer the same faith when things go seriously pear shaped.....If your sons go to war, their sons must go to war also....If the nation's finances go to the wall, then their finances must also go to the wall. If your area takes a downturn, then their area must take a downturn. When the modern world allowed that symmetry in consequences to change....that's when the sh1te started to hit the fan....and once upon a time it was more like that....as the posh guy's lad also went over the top when that whistle was blown back in WW1....but that's pretty rare now. Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Oct 2022 10.15pm) So these mythical bogeymen the "elites", so beloved of the right as the architects of all our problems, emerges again. I don't have any faith at all in mythical beings. I don't actually have any faith in our current system of democracy, which I have long since believed needs root and branch reform. I do have faith in many of the people who try to do their best under the current system, but are stymied by it. I don't believe they are all self-serving opportunists, although some definitely are. If we want some of the things that are suggested above then we can have them. We just need, collectively, to get organised and put people in Parliament who think the same. Which is why those "elites" are a myth. No-one controls us, unless we let them. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 22 Oct 22 11.13pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Wisbech's faith in the elites when they collectively....regardless of what party, country or what ideas.... have drenched the west into inescapable levels of debt boggles belief.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Oct 2022 10.15pm)

So these mythical bogeymen the "elites", so beloved of the right as the architects of all our problems, emerges again.

I don't have any faith at all in mythical beings. I don't actually have any faith in our current system of democracy, which I have long since believed needs root and branch reform.

I do have faith in many of the people who try to do their best under the current system, but are stymied by it. I don't believe they are all self-serving opportunists, although some definitely are.

If we want some of the things that are suggested above then we can have them. We just need, collectively, to get organised and put people in Parliament who think the same. Which is why those "elites" are a myth. No-one controls us, unless we let them.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Stirlingsays 22 Oct 22 11.14pm
Just as an interesting comparison of information this is the current inflation rate in some other European countries. Estonia- 24.1% Lithuania- 22.5% Latvia - 22.0% Hungary- 20.7% Czech Republic - 17.8% Netherlands- 17.1% Poland -15.7% Bulgaria -15.6% Slovakia-13.6% Romania - 13.4% Croatia - 12.6% Greece -12.1% Belgium - 12.1% Denmark - 11.1% Germany - 10.9% Austria - 10.9% Slovenia - 10.6% Sweden - 10.3% Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Oct 2022 11.15pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

22 Oct 22 11.14pm

Just as an interesting comparison of information this is the current inflation rate in some other European countries.

Estonia- 24.1%
Lithuania- 22.5%
Latvia - 22.0%
Hungary- 20.7%
Czech Republic - 17.8%
Netherlands- 17.1%
Poland -15.7%
Bulgaria -15.6%
Slovakia-13.6%
Romania - 13.4%
Croatia - 12.6%
Greece -12.1%
Belgium - 12.1%
Denmark - 11.1%
Germany - 10.9%
Austria - 10.9%
Slovenia - 10.6%
Sweden - 10.3%

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Oct 2022 11.15pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 22 Oct 22 11.21pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle So these mythical bogeymen the "elites", so beloved of the right as the architects of all our problems, emerges again. I don't have any faith at all in mythical beings. I don't actually have any faith in our current system of democracy, which I have long since believed needs root and branch reform. I do have faith in many of the people who try to do their best under the current system, but are stymied by it. I don't believe they are all self-serving opportunists, although some definitely are. If we want some of the things that are suggested above then we can have them. We just need, collectively, to get organised and put people in Parliament who think the same. Which is why those "elites" are a myth. No-one controls us, unless we let them. I find this view just mind boggling. You literally just saw a PM sacked by the Bank of England....the money men. That's just one level above...of which there's more internationally.....Errrr...when was the last time you voted out the head of the Bank of England? Mythical bogeymen? What? The 'elites' are those who ultimately hold the power at various managemental levels....above the level of ground administration and implementation....and money is that decider....Mr Landlord. You are living in some kind of fantasy or selling people nonsense that doesn't relate to what is actually happening in front of them. Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Oct 2022 11.26pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

22 Oct 22 11.21pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

So these mythical bogeymen the "elites", so beloved of the right as the architects of all our problems, emerges again.

I don't have any faith at all in mythical beings. I don't actually have any faith in our current system of democracy, which I have long since believed needs root and branch reform.

I do have faith in many of the people who try to do their best under the current system, but are stymied by it. I don't believe they are all self-serving opportunists, although some definitely are.

I find this view just mind boggling.

You literally just saw a PM sacked by the Bank of England....the money men. That's just one level above...of which there's more internationally.....Errrr...when was the last time you voted out the head of the Bank of England?

Mythical bogeymen? What? The 'elites' are those who ultimately hold the power at various managemental levels....above the level of ground administration and implementation....and money is that decider....Mr Landlord.

You are living in some kind of fantasy or selling people nonsense that doesn't relate to what is actually happening in front of them.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Oct 2022 11.26pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 22 Oct 22 11.22pm
Originally posted by Matov Only if the markets let you. That is the point. We live in a UK in which our elected representatives are not allowed to actually do what they say they want to do. Why would the markets be any kinder to Starmer? This issue is not about what political brand people support. This is about that not mattering if the system effectively imposes the 'markets' as the arbiter of what our politicians can do. You have some very strange ideas! We do live in the UK, but we don't live in the world alone. Nor do we dominate it. Our elected representatives have no choice other than live with the realities that imposes. You could elect a bunch of angels, but they would not be able to alter the basics. Those who believe we can isolate ourselves in someway from global influences are deluding themselves. Truss attempts to cut taxes has resulted in higher, not lower, costs for everyone. If they hadn't been reversed it would be even worse. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 22 Oct 22 11.22pm

Originally posted by Matov

Only if the markets let you. That is the point. We live in a UK in which our elected representatives are not allowed to actually do what they say they want to do.

Why would the markets be any kinder to Starmer?

This issue is not about what political brand people support. This is about that not mattering if the system effectively imposes the 'markets' as the arbiter of what our politicians can do.

You have some very strange ideas!

We do live in the UK, but we don't live in the world alone. Nor do we dominate it. Our elected representatives have no choice other than live with the realities that imposes. You could elect a bunch of angels, but they would not be able to alter the basics.

Those who believe we can isolate ourselves in someway from global influences are deluding themselves. Truss attempts to cut taxes has resulted in higher, not lower, costs for everyone. If they hadn't been reversed it would be even worse.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Stirlingsays 22 Oct 22 11.25pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle You have some very strange ideas! We do live in the UK, but we don't live in the world alone. Nor do we dominate it. Our elected representatives have no choice other than live with the realities that imposes. You could elect a bunch of angels, but they would not be able to alter the basics. Those who believe we can isolate ourselves in someway from global influences are deluding themselves. Truss attempts to cut taxes has resulted in higher, not lower, costs for everyone. If they hadn't been reversed it would be even worse. Anyone who cares to actually look at the financial situation can see that this was coming regardless. The can has been kicked down the road for many years: all Truss did was shorten it a little. It won't be just tax rises...It's going to be horrible for all of us. Those who have spare assets should probably eventually put them into gold and silver. Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Oct 2022 11.28pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

22 Oct 22 11.25pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

You have some very strange ideas!

Those who believe we can isolate ourselves in someway from global influences are deluding themselves. Truss attempts to cut taxes has resulted in higher, not lower, costs for everyone. If they hadn't been reversed it would be even worse.

Anyone who cares to actually look at the financial situation can see that this was coming regardless.

The can has been kicked down the road for many years: all Truss did was shorten it a little.

It won't be just tax rises...It's going to be horrible for all of us.

Those who have spare assets should probably eventually put them into gold and silver.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Oct 2022 11.28pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 22 Oct 22 11.44pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I find this view just mind boggling. You literally just saw a PM sacked by the Bank of England....the money men. That's just one level above...of which there a more internationally.....Errrr...when was the last time you voted out the head of the Bank of England? Mythical bogeymen? What? The 'elites' are those who ultimately hold the power at various managemental levels....above the level of ground administration and implementation....and money is that decider....Mr Landlord. You are living in some kind of fantasy or selling people nonsense that doesn't relate to what is actually happening in front of them. Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Oct 2022 11.23pm) That's nonsense and either a complete misunderstanding, or misrepresentation, of what really happened. That it seems to be the current excuse being promulgated on the right for their own culpability in this, is no excuse. The Bank didn't sack anyone. They had no role at all. Truss resigned when she was convinced by her Party that she no longer had the support of their MPs. The Bank of England is independent of politics. It's Governor is appointed by the Monarch, on the advice of the Chancellor. Who is themselves appointed by the PM. The Bank has a duty to act in the interests of the country, and not in political expediency. If that results in problems for a PM then that's the PM's fault for not anticipating what was going to happen and consulting. Truss obviously didn't consult and was briefing against both the Bank and the OBR. You just want to blame shadows when the truth is that it is the right following their ideological obsessions, without listening to common sense and then adopting a pragmatic approach at a difficult time, which is really the cause of the current crisis. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 22 Oct 22 11.44pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I find this view just mind boggling.

You literally just saw a PM sacked by the Bank of England....the money men. That's just one level above...of which there a more internationally.....Errrr...when was the last time you voted out the head of the Bank of England?

You are living in some kind of fantasy or selling people nonsense that doesn't relate to what is actually happening in front of them.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Oct 2022 11.23pm)

That's nonsense and either a complete misunderstanding, or misrepresentation, of what really happened. That it seems to be the current excuse being promulgated on the right for their own culpability in this, is no excuse.

The Bank didn't sack anyone. They had no role at all. Truss resigned when she was convinced by her Party that she no longer had the support of their MPs.

The Bank of England is independent of politics. It's Governor is appointed by the Monarch, on the advice of the Chancellor. Who is themselves appointed by the PM. The Bank has a duty to act in the interests of the country, and not in political expediency. If that results in problems for a PM then that's the PM's fault for not anticipating what was going to happen and consulting. Truss obviously didn't consult and was briefing against both the Bank and the OBR.

You just want to blame shadows when the truth is that it is the right following their ideological obsessions, without listening to common sense and then adopting a pragmatic approach at a difficult time, which is really the cause of the current crisis.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Stirlingsays 23 Oct 22 12.22am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle That's nonsense and either a complete misunderstanding, or misrepresentation, of what really happened. That it seems to be the current excuse being promulgated on the right for their own culpability in this, is no excuse. The Bank didn't sack anyone. They had no role at all. Truss resigned when she was convinced by her Party that she no longer had the support of their MPs. The Bank of England is independent of politics. It's Governor is appointed by the Monarch, on the advice of the Chancellor. Who is themselves appointed by the PM. The Bank has a duty to act in the interests of the country, and not in political expediency. If that results in problems for a PM then that's the PM's fault for not anticipating what was going to happen and consulting. Truss obviously didn't consult and was briefing against both the Bank and the OBR. You just want to blame shadows when the truth is that it is the right following their ideological obsessions, without listening to common sense and then adopting a pragmatic approach at a difficult time, which is really the cause of the current crisis. Oh Truss was convinced by her party was she. I wonder was it her party that had to step in and buy tens of billions of bonds....Do you honestly believe that the brain isn't connected to the nervous system?....Just as our physical systems are linked and work together the political and financial systems are intrinsically linked.....they don't exist on some separate plane as you appear to think. I suppose she was convinced by her party to sack her Chancellor as well then a few days before she went. Some of the stuff you try to sell. Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Oct 2022 12.47am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

23 Oct 22 12.22am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

The Bank didn't sack anyone. They had no role at all. Truss resigned when she was convinced by her Party that she no longer had the support of their MPs.

Oh Truss was convinced by her party was she. I wonder was it her party that had to step in and buy tens of billions of bonds....Do you honestly believe that the brain isn't connected to the nervous system?....Just as our physical systems are linked and work together the political and financial systems are intrinsically linked.....they don't exist on some separate plane as you appear to think.

I suppose she was convinced by her party to sack her Chancellor as well then a few days before she went.

Some of the stuff you try to sell.

Edited by Stirlingsays (23 Oct 2022 12.47am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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