Coronavirus and the impact of Lockdown policy

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Coronavirus and the impact of Lockdown policy

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HKOwen Hong Kong 08 May 24 10.08am
Originally posted by ASCPFC This isn't a Joe Biden thread. There is a senile bloke with TDS spouting nonsense regularly so it could be about Joe Biden Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.
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HKOwen

Hong Kong 08 May 24 10.08am

Originally posted by ASCPFC

This isn't a Joe Biden thread.

There is a senile bloke with TDS spouting nonsense regularly so it could be about Joe Biden

Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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Stirlingsays 08 May 24 4.56pm
Originally posted by Badger11 I'm not getting involved in the science of this but perhaps the driver behind "Commercial reasons" is that healthcare providers have stopped buying it because they are concerned about it's safety? He isn't going to listen nor ever change his mind. He's just an establishment mouthpiece for pretty much everything. However, he and those like him are going to have an increasingly difficult few years ahead.....as this will hardly be the last we hear of it. For those of us actually interested in the truth of what went on it's going to be interesting and for some difficult.....because there has been a huge amount of lying and half truths and presentation of certainties towards well meaning and trusting populations.....who were massively pressurized and denied alternative opinions on the mainstream....which for many they only had access to the mainstream. You can be pretty certain that....as we see in modern society when the powerful are involved....no one will be held to account. Edited by Stirlingsays (08 May 2024 5.09pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

08 May 24 4.56pm

Originally posted by Badger11

I'm not getting involved in the science of this but perhaps the driver behind "Commercial reasons" is that healthcare providers have stopped buying it because they are concerned about it's safety?

He isn't going to listen nor ever change his mind.

He's just an establishment mouthpiece for pretty much everything.

However, he and those like him are going to have an increasingly difficult few years ahead.....as this will hardly be the last we hear of it.

For those of us actually interested in the truth of what went on it's going to be interesting and for some difficult.....because there has been a huge amount of lying and half truths and presentation of certainties towards well meaning and trusting populations.....who were massively pressurized and denied alternative opinions on the mainstream....which for many they only had access to the mainstream.

You can be pretty certain that....as we see in modern society when the powerful are involved....no one will be held to account.

Edited by Stirlingsays (08 May 2024 5.09pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 08 May 24 9.25pm
Originally posted by Badger11 I'm not getting involved in the science of this but perhaps the driver behind "Commercial reasons" is that healthcare providers have stopped buying it because they are concerned about it's safety? It has been clearly and logically explained as summarised here:- [Link] Only those whose maths is suspect are worried about its safety. The fact is that there are now better options. It’s a perfectly sensible decision both for them and for the future needs of ourselves and billions of others around the world. The virus keeps mutating and newer vaccines are better adapted at providing protection. We have every reason to be very proud of the work done in Oxford and for the millions of lives they saved around the world. Their vaccine was cheaper and easier to store and transport, making it extremely valuable to poorer countries. It’s so disappointing to see their work being treated by some in the way it is. Of course those wanting to imagine a dark conspiracy theory are bound to rush to all kinds of conclusions, demand enquiries and keep on frightening others so they become more vulnerable. I hope they feel ashamed of themselves, but somehow I doubt it For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 08 May 24 9.25pm

Originally posted by Badger11

I'm not getting involved in the science of this but perhaps the driver behind "Commercial reasons" is that healthcare providers have stopped buying it because they are concerned about it's safety?

It has been clearly and logically explained as summarised here:-

[Link]

Only those whose maths is suspect are worried about its safety. The fact is that there are now better options.

It’s a perfectly sensible decision both for them and for the future needs of ourselves and billions of others around the world. The virus keeps mutating and newer vaccines are better adapted at providing protection. We have every reason to be very proud of the work done in Oxford and for the millions of lives they saved around the world. Their vaccine was cheaper and easier to store and transport, making it extremely valuable to poorer countries. It’s so disappointing to see their work being treated by some in the way it is.

Of course those wanting to imagine a dark conspiracy theory are bound to rush to all kinds of conclusions, demand enquiries and keep on frightening others so they become more vulnerable. I hope they feel ashamed of themselves, but somehow I doubt it

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 08 May 24 9.30pm
Originally posted by eaglesdare Here it is in black and white and people still won’t admit they were wrong. They trust the science but not this science apparently. The science is sound. That science says that there are now better options available to cope with the current variants. That means the demand for theirs has declined to the point where it is no longer commercially viable. NOT that it is unsafe! Read my previous response and this:- [Link] For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 08 May 24 9.30pm

Originally posted by eaglesdare

Here it is in black and white and people still won’t admit they were wrong. They trust the science but not this science apparently.

The science is sound. That science says that there are now better options available to cope with the current variants. That means the demand for theirs has declined to the point where it is no longer commercially viable. NOT that it is unsafe!

Read my previous response and this:-

[Link]

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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becky over the moon 09 May 24 6.01am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle The science is sound. That science says that there are now better options available to cope with the current variants. That means the demand for theirs has declined to the point where it is no longer commercially viable. NOT that it is unsafe! Read my previous response and this:- [Link] Well reading the BBC article you referenced, I would quote 1) "AstraZeneca said it was "incredibly proud" of the vaccine, but it had made a commercial decision. It said the rise of new coronavirus variants meant demand had shifted to the newer updated vaccines. Its vaccine was estimated to have saved millions of lives during the pandemic, but also caused rare, and sometimes fatal, blood clots." 2). "The truth is it made an enormous difference, it was what lifted us out of the catastrophe that was unfolding at the time, combined with the other vaccine from Pfizer," said Prof Adam Finn, from the University of Bristol. However, its reputation was dented as unusual blood clots emerged as a rare side effect of the vaccine, and the UK turned to alternatives." Fatal blood clots, however rare, don't souns particularly safe to me. A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers
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becky

over the moon 09 May 24 6.01am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

[Link]

Well reading the BBC article you referenced, I would quote

1) "AstraZeneca said it was "incredibly proud" of the vaccine, but it had made a commercial decision.

It said the rise of new coronavirus variants meant demand had shifted to the newer updated vaccines.

Its vaccine was estimated to have saved millions of lives during the pandemic, but also caused rare, and sometimes fatal, blood clots."

2). "The truth is it made an enormous difference, it was what lifted us out of the catastrophe that was unfolding at the time, combined with the other vaccine from Pfizer," said Prof Adam Finn, from the University of Bristol.

However, its reputation was dented as unusual blood clots emerged as a rare side effect of the vaccine, and the UK turned to alternatives."

Fatal blood clots, however rare, don't souns particularly safe to me.

A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers

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Stirlingsays 09 May 24 7.03am
Evidence that the media presents false certainties that can be seen as lying to people. Having editors and lawyers is no excuse when the information given to people is inaccurate. Alternative views were canceled in the media and valid concerns closed down. People were called conspiracy theorists for what has later transpired to be accurate concerns. [Tweet Link] 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

09 May 24 7.03am

Evidence that the media presents false certainties that can be seen as lying to people.

Having editors and lawyers is no excuse when the information given to people is inaccurate.

Alternative views were canceled in the media and valid concerns closed down.

People were called conspiracy theorists for what has later transpired to be accurate concerns.

[Tweet Link]

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 09 May 24 7.30am
Let's remember here just how insane the media were towards people who didn't want to take one of these vaccines or a booster. No adult should be criticised for taking a vaccine or not taking one. These were personal health decisions and what we all experienced was a kind of hysterical tyranny. [Tweet Link] 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

09 May 24 7.30am

Let's remember here just how insane the media were towards people who didn't want to take one of these vaccines or a booster.

No adult should be criticised for taking a vaccine or not taking one. These were personal health decisions and what we all experienced was a kind of hysterical tyranny.

[Tweet Link]

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 May 24 8.25am
Originally posted by becky Well reading the BBC article you referenced, I would quote 1) "AstraZeneca said it was "incredibly proud" of the vaccine, but it had made a commercial decision. It said the rise of new coronavirus variants meant demand had shifted to the newer updated vaccines. Its vaccine was estimated to have saved millions of lives during the pandemic, but also caused rare, and sometimes fatal, blood clots." 2). "The truth is it made an enormous difference, it was what lifted us out of the catastrophe that was unfolding at the time, combined with the other vaccine from Pfizer," said Prof Adam Finn, from the University of Bristol. However, its reputation was dented as unusual blood clots emerged as a rare side effect of the vaccine, and the UK turned to alternatives." Fatal blood clots, however rare, don't souns particularly safe to me. Nor is getting out of bed! People can fall and die. It’s rare, but it happens. It’s all comparative. Do you spend your life in bed and avoid that risk, or take the greater risk of dying from infected bed sores? It’s the same with a vaccine, or just about any medication or medical procedure. I had a minor op a few weeks ago which necessitated a general anaesthetic, from which I could have died. The chances were minimal but existed. You have to weigh the benefit against the risk and with the Covid vaccines it’s a no brainier. When common sense meets conspiracy theory there is only one winner. So whilst life itself isn’t safe it beats the hell out of the alternative. So do the vaccines. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 09 May 24 8.25am

Originally posted by becky

Well reading the BBC article you referenced, I would quote

1) "AstraZeneca said it was "incredibly proud" of the vaccine, but it had made a commercial decision.

It said the rise of new coronavirus variants meant demand had shifted to the newer updated vaccines.

Its vaccine was estimated to have saved millions of lives during the pandemic, but also caused rare, and sometimes fatal, blood clots."

However, its reputation was dented as unusual blood clots emerged as a rare side effect of the vaccine, and the UK turned to alternatives."

Fatal blood clots, however rare, don't souns particularly safe to me.

Nor is getting out of bed! People can fall and die. It’s rare, but it happens.

It’s all comparative. Do you spend your life in bed and avoid that risk, or take the greater risk of dying from infected bed sores?

It’s the same with a vaccine, or just about any medication or medical procedure. I had a minor op a few weeks ago which necessitated a general anaesthetic, from which I could have died. The chances were minimal but existed.

You have to weigh the benefit against the risk and with the Covid vaccines it’s a no brainier. When common sense meets conspiracy theory there is only one winner.

So whilst life itself isn’t safe it beats the hell out of the alternative. So do the vaccines.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Stirlingsays 09 May 24 8.33am
Listen to this guy going with 'rare' when it's literally a press release from a company under a shed load of lawsuits for vaccine harm. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

09 May 24 8.33am

Listen to this guy going with 'rare' when it's literally a press release from a company under a shed load of lawsuits for vaccine harm.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 May 24 9.16am
This is a summary of the situation with Astrazeneca from today’s Independent. [Link] Yes, lawyers have started a class action, but that doesn’t prove anything other than lawyers will start class actions. Rare side effects have been accepted. Whether all, or any, of those involved in the class action will ultimately be shown to have been the result of having the vaccine is yet to be determined. It could take many years and until then nothing should be assumed. Being ultra cautious makes sense. If there are now alternatives available that are even more effective and have lower instances of even very rare side effects then it’s sensible to use them. That though doesn’t mean that the company, or the government, were irresponsible in providing the Astrazenca vaccine, which has saved millions of lives around the world. It just means things have moved on. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 09 May 24 9.16am

This is a summary of the situation with Astrazeneca from today’s Independent.

[Link]

Yes, lawyers have started a class action, but that doesn’t prove anything other than lawyers will start class actions.

Rare side effects have been accepted. Whether all, or any, of those involved in the class action will ultimately be shown to have been the result of having the vaccine is yet to be determined. It could take many years and until then nothing should be assumed.

Being ultra cautious makes sense. If there are now alternatives available that are even more effective and have lower instances of even very rare side effects then it’s sensible to use them.

That though doesn’t mean that the company, or the government, were irresponsible in providing the Astrazenca vaccine, which has saved millions of lives around the world.

It just means things have moved on.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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eaglesdare 09 May 24 10.14am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Listen to this guy going with 'rare' when it's literally a press release from a company under a shed load of lawsuits for vaccine harm. What even is the threshold for "Rare"?
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eaglesdare

09 May 24 10.14am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Listen to this guy going with 'rare' when it's literally a press release from a company under a shed load of lawsuits for vaccine harm.

What even is the threshold for "Rare"?

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The groover Danbury 09 May 24 10.33am
It should be remembered that covid causes blood clots, as I've already discussed. Therefore the fact AZ does the same thing is not imo a surprise. Its a choice for everyone, but bottom line. If you get a clot due to the vaccine chances are you're also going to do so if you get covid. Some of us are susceptible to getting blood clots. That is a fact. And that is why when I had covid and when I had the AZ vaccines I took one aspirin every two days as a blood thinner.
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The groover