The problem is that Sunak is the PM that most people who don't vote Tory want where as Johnson is the PM that most people who do vote Tory are likely to back, even despite.

There is simply no unifying candidate. Possibly Kemi but she is not being even mentioned.

All I do detect is that the Labour fear Johnson more than Sunak in terms of scuppering Starmer's chances of reaching number 10. Sunak is boring but essentially just a placeholder. Johnson is a nightmare who might take pull off a miracle if he is given a couple of years in situ.

Personally, I think if it looks like Johnson might do it, then the plug will be pulled in some way and we have a general election, even before the end of this year.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

The real issue that is getting ignored in all the hysteria is that is makes no difference anymore who is in charge. That is the point of all of this.

There is not even the pretence of any kind of genuine democratic input anymore.

Truss was the PM. She decided to cut taxes back to levels that have been seen in the recent past. This was not some great revolutionary attempt to change the fiscal landscape.

And in return she is gone.

The office of PM is utterly pointless if you cannot decide to change the tax rate.

Sunak or Starmer makes no difference. Even all this woke BS has come about under a supposedly Conservative Government.

I am a bore about this but for me it is the biggest single head f*** of it all now. My vote, your vote, means literally nothing anymore.

The last time it did was June 23rd 2016. And that is going to be rectified by the powers that be sooner rather than later.

We are post-modern serfs. With less holidays.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Yeah I’m with this point

Not sure how it can be claimed so definitively that one is representative of the majority

If he’s referring to the brexit vote as some sort of reference. That was eons ago. A lot has changed since then… you can’t continue to reference a single event at a single point in time and continually use it as an up to date yardstick for what ‘the majority’ is. That’s nonsense

Who knows who or what the majority is now. Whatever the case I can wager it’s very different to 2016.

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

Not sure the point being made here. She literally did decide to change the tax rate. It’s not the act itself that’s the issue. It’s the context and timing. Pretty obvious really

The rest - nothing new. Has been a theme for decades. If you’re only just having some sort of epiphany then, well, what?

‘The last time it did was…’ oh come on. I’m fed up with people clinging to that vote like it was some sort of golden moment. You make it sound like everything up to that point was rosy and working perfectly. And that vote was the pinnacle of real democracy in action. Nonsense. Beaides, as a brexiteer I’m not sure you’d be saying that if the vote had gone the other way.

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

They didn't. The membership did, and quite possibly are about to again.

We must ensure that we return to a system by which the people we choose decide who will lead them, and not a small unrepresentative bunch of activists. Our representatives know the qualities of the candidates much better than we do, they know better than us what qualities the job needs. They need to have confidence in who leads them, and not have someone imposed on them. That applies to Labour every bit as much as it does to the Tories.

We end up with a charade in which the MPs try to stitch together an offer they hope gives their members no choice. The problem is that the memberships aren't thinking of the national interest. They are activists with agendas.

We need a unity candidate for sure, but I don't see any coalescing around one happening.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Actually I think it is near to impossible. Even if all the teams played badly there would still be winners and losers. So excitement and entertainment.

I think a political re-alignment is coming ever closer. Exactly how and when it might happen is unclear but the need for it is, and when needs exist, eventually they usually get satisfied.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.