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silvertop Flag Portishead 27 Jun 22 1.10pm Send a Private Message to silvertop Add silvertop as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

If they do, and that's a big "if" which we can leave aside for now, then they do so because that's what the majority of people have chosen. If enough aren't concerned about these issues to the point that they demand change and vote for people who would deliver it, then that's their choice. The power always rests with us. We just need to make the arguments and find the leaders to convince enough others to get what we want.

It depends if you are talking about political power, manifestos and the like or those whose decisions truly filter down on your day-to-day. They are not synonymous. Politicians generally enter the fray with grand designs that are eroded and streamed by the realpolitik that the decisions that impact direct on real life are actually made elsewhere.

And someone needs to research the point and present an accurate Venn diagram. It would put heated political debate into some perspective.

 

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W12 27 Jun 22 2.16pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

If they do, and that's a big "if" which we can leave aside for now, then they do so because that's what the majority of people have chosen. If enough aren't concerned about these issues to the point that they demand change and vote for people who would deliver it, then that's their choice. The power always rests with us. We just need to make the arguments and find the leaders to convince enough others to get what we want.

How would I vote to remove the influence of Bill Gates, Ursula von der Leyen, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, Agustín Carstens or Larry Fink? (to name but a few).

Your arguments are childish in the extreme.

 

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Teddy Eagle Flag 28 Jun 22 12.32am Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

As every choice you make is based on your opinion of what is best, you are arguing semantics for their own sake. An "opinion poll" has another word, apart from just opinion.

Taking a poll means collecting opinions. Holding an election means making choices.

Of course, I remember the "alternative vote referendum". The MP's did decide that matter for themselves. No referendum in the UK has the force of law. Any held are always consultative, despite what some seem to think. The MPs have the power, the right and the duty, to ignore a referendum result if they believe it to be unwise. They may decide not to use that power, but should events and circumstances so demand, they could.

You can argue for reforming the electoral system. That's another debate. What you cannot argue is what we have now is not as I have described it, and to get any reforms achieved means it must be done within the current system.

How do you suggest we change the electoral system when those affected by it can ignore any opinion they don't like?

 

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Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 28 Jun 22 10.50am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by W12

How would I vote to remove the influence of Bill Gates, Ursula von der Leyen, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, Agustín Carstens or Larry Fink? (to name but a few).

Your arguments are childish in the extreme.

Influence rests with many people. Just look at the power people with an active mind, or savvy presentation, can earn big money on the internet these days as "influencers". Would you like to remove them too? Presumably so your "influence" dominates. I'd vote against that.

For someone who makes the kind of arguments you do, to call mine "childish" is probably the most ridiculous claim I have read from you. And it has some fierce competition!

 


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W12 28 Jun 22 10.59am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Influence rests with many people. Just look at the power people with an active mind, or savvy presentation, can earn big money on the internet these days as "influencers". Would you like to remove them too? Presumably so your "influence" dominates. I'd vote against that.

For someone who makes the kind of arguments you do, to call mine "childish" is probably the most ridiculous claim I have read from you. And it has some fierce competition!

I'm not talking about people selling eyeliner mate as you well know. You are making equivalence of social media influencers and people who head organisations with real transnational geopolitical power.

Disingenuous and childish.

 

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Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 28 Jun 22 11.19am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

How do you suggest we change the electoral system when those affected by it can ignore any opinion they don't like?

As we are all affected by it, and all subject to the law, I don't get the point you are trying to make.

I would certainly like us to change our system to a STV version of PR, which would encourage the growth of a greater number of local parties and independents, and for our MPs to vote with their consciences more often, reducing the power of the whips. Doubtless this would result in many more coalitions, in which compromises would be necessary, but it would also stop any one party dominating for too long and ensure we adopted a middle of the road approach with no big lurches to the left or right.

If people knew their vote counted and that there was always someone in their area who shared their views who they could approach, then the current level of cynicism about politics ought to diminish and engagement increase.

Getting it done isn't so easy. It's not in the interests of either major party, especially the Tories. However, with every prospect of a hung Parliament after the next GE I would not be surprised if the Lib Dems and the SNP included a move to PR in their manifestos as their price for joining a coalition. We'll see.

 


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Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 28 Jun 22 11.30am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by W12

I'm not talking about people selling eyeliner mate as you well know. You are making equivalence of social media influencers and people who head organisations with real transnational geopolitical power.

Disingenuous and childish.

If you don't think political influencers exist on the internet then you are seriously naive. You have only to follow some links provided on these pages to know that.

Organisations exist for good reasons. They need managers to run them. None of that is new. In today's world, we need transnational organisations. The world would be a mess without them. Of course, they need oversight, which is why every country governs itself and none are bound by decisions they don't make themselves.

Those who oppose the efforts that the UN and WEF, as examples, are making to stabilise and co-ordinate worldwide responses, are so short-sighted and ignorant it takes my breath away sometimes.

 


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croydon proud Flag Any european country i fancy! 28 Jun 22 2.14pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Home or away? Have a good one Stirling.

My Euros are on home- but for how long? To be sure to be sure!

 

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croydon proud Flag Any european country i fancy! 28 Jun 22 2.15pm

Originally posted by croydon proud

My Euros are on home- but for how long? To be sure to be sure!

With a day trip in to the EU-to see how the other half live!

 

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BlueJay Flag UK 28 Jun 22 5.33pm

The GOP would overturn the filibuster to impose a national abortion ban if it wins the midterms, ex-RNC chief suggests - [Link]

Sounds farfetched on the surface but isn't particularly. The professed intention to leave this to the States has already been put in doubt by several saying how they intend to push for a national aproach. Talk of freedoms and privacy by those would would strip them away from others is hardly a rarity, and you'll see how brazenly little they care about such things when they have the option to act.

Let's not forget that McConnell stopped Obama's last Supreme Court nomination for a year in order to allow Trump to fill that vacancy because it was'an election year'. and the voters should have a say. Then 'a week' prior to the 2020 presidential election McConnell installed a Trump court pick. it's all about pushing through their agenda come what may, while dems just endlessly pontificate.

 

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croydon proud Flag Any european country i fancy! 28 Jun 22 7.30pm

Originally posted by croydon proud

My Euros are on home- but for how long? To be sure to be sure!

Home in NI obvs!

 

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Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 28 Jun 22 10.57pm Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

The US Congressional hearings are turning up some pretty devastating evidence linking Trump directly to the violence. Today, a WH insider testified that Trump knew some rioters were armed and made no attempt to stop them. Prior to this, some senior lawyers had testified they had repeatedly counselled Trump that his claims of election fraud had no factual basis and had threatened to resign en-masse when Trump attempted to install a new AJ, with no experience, who would comply. This guy has refused to testify, but had his house raided by the FBI. Bill Barr said Trump was detached from reality. 5 members of Congress requested pardons to protect them from prosecution for their involvement in the scheme.

Today's evidence could be the tipping point.

 


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