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CONservative government incompetence.
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 HKOwen  Hong Kong 21 Oct 22 3.24pm |
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Originally posted by ASCPFC
Any of the Tory elder statesmen still around? I don't follow the Tories closely enough to know. I'm just thinking people like Ken Clarke etc seem better than the current lot. But maybe they make almost anyone look good - with the sole exception of Starmer et al. Ken Clarke refused to accept the result of the Brexit referendum and did all he could to scupper/reverse the outcome. Democracy not his thing when he doesn't like the outcome.
Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance. |
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| HKOwen Hong Kong 21 Oct 22 3.25pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
They aren't my party. They are the only alternative to Labour who can win an election. They have not delivered on immigration and have allowed our institutions to pander to minorities. Elements in the party have become disruptive since they lost the Brexit vote. I want to see a shift to politics that represents the majority in this country and secures a decent future for my grandchildren. The way we are heading now spells complete disaster. Agree again
Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance. |
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Stirlingsays  21 Oct 22 3.26pm |
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Originally posted by HKOwen
Ken Clarke refused to accept the result of the Brexit referendum and did all he could to scupper/reverse the outcome. Democracy not his thing when he doesn't like the outcome. Indeed.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Badger11 Beckenham 21 Oct 22 4.29pm |
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Originally posted by HKOwen
Ken Clarke refused to accept the result of the Brexit referendum and did all he could to scupper/reverse the outcome. Democracy not his thing when he doesn't like the outcome. At least Clark was honest from the get go unlike 30 or so other Tory MPs who claimed to support Brexit but once elected had a conversion on the road to Damascus. I never had a problem with Clark the voters knew where he stood.
One more point |
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| Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 21 Oct 22 4.49pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
At least Clark was honest from the get go unlike 30 or so other Tory MPs who claimed to support Brexit but once elected had a conversion on the road to Damascus. I never had a problem with Clark the voters knew where he stood. Absolutely. Edited by Willo (21 Oct 2022 4.50pm)
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| silvertop Portishead 21 Oct 22 5.02pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
They aren't my party. They are the only alternative to Labour who can win an election. They have not delivered on immigration and have allowed our institutions to pander to minorities. Elements in the party have become disruptive since they lost the Brexit vote. I want to see a shift to politics that represents the majority in this country and secures a decent future for my grandchildren. The way we are heading now spells complete disaster. Are you sure you know what that is? I don't. I don't know anyone who voted remain but have now changed their minds; or who voted leave and would vote it again if given the option. I honestly don't. I also don't know anyone who is as concerned about immigration as you are. I have little doubt there are vast armies out there who do hold your views; but I am not sure they are as plentiful as you think.
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| silvertop Portishead 21 Oct 22 5.05pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
At least Clark was honest from the get go unlike 30 or so other Tory MPs who claimed to support Brexit but once elected had a conversion on the road to Damascus. I never had a problem with Clark the voters knew where he stood. And the other way round. One problem with leave was the number who "supported" the cause just because they took a chance on it being the road to their personal glory. One even got the top job on the back of his Damascene conversion.
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| Stirlingsays 21 Oct 22 6.15pm |
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Originally posted by silvertop
Are you sure you know what that is? I don't. I don't know anyone who voted remain but have now changed their minds; or who voted leave and would vote it again if given the option. I honestly don't. I also don't know anyone who is as concerned about immigration as you are. I have little doubt there are vast armies out there who do hold your views; but I am not sure they are as plentiful as you think. You live in Portishead, Somerset for feck's sake. I'm pretty sure that those living in nice areas have all sorts of liberalised opinions about the world....they aren't living in the real one. What you need is some proper immigration, not a filtered wealth type and crime levels to match before you can realistically provide us all with your summaration of how out of touch Hrolf is. Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Oct 2022 6.16pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 21 Oct 22 7.07pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
Regardless of "our" culpability they're still the people you want to make every decision for us. Where else to place the blame? We ultimately hold the power in our own hands. We can join, or form, parties. We can put forward candidates who will pass the laws we approve of. We get the people we deserve. If we want better then we need to act better. MPs are our representatives. They don't exist without us.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 21 Oct 22 7.18pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
That has become glaringly obvious. It isn't the political class as a whole which is at fault. Many within it are decent, hard working people. Some are self-serving chancers, like Johnson. What's obvious is the system that permits different factions who hate one another existing within one party, who are continually being stitched together by the whips. It just doesn't work anymore. We need multi party honesty within a PR system. Then hard bargained compromises.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 21 Oct 22 7.20pm |
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Originally posted by HKOwen
Ken Clarke refused to accept the result of the Brexit referendum and did all he could to scupper/reverse the outcome. Democracy not his thing when he doesn't like the outcome. The total reverse is true. Ken Clarke voted according to his conscience, which was his democratic duty.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| silvertop Portishead 21 Oct 22 7.37pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
You live in Portishead, Somerset for feck's sake. I'm pretty sure that those living in nice areas have all sorts of liberalised opinions about the world....they aren't living in the real one. What you need is some proper immigration, not a filtered wealth type and crime levels to match before you can realistically provide us all with your summaration of how out of touch Hrolf is.
I'm from London via Bristol and only moved to the sticks in April! I didn't say he was out of touch. Hrolf claimed to hold the views of the majority and I responded to that. People hold the whole range of opinions, some hold none or next to none and some are so maleable (sorry Owen, patronising again) they just flop from one borrowed opinion to the next. And back. Anyone claiming to hold the majority view in that dense thought jungle is very brave.
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