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 Teddy Eagle  25 Jun 22 8.24pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Your attitude over this is not only completely misplaced, it is very unhealthy, and not just for yourself. No-one at all tried to "render your "Leave" vote null and void. Both our votes, mine for Remain and yours for Leave, were in a referendum. Referendums have no legitimacy in the UK system, where Parliament is sovereign. Parliament decided to respect the vote and trigger Article 50. They could have decided that enough had changed since the original vote that it would have to be ignored. They could have decided it needed to be confirmed. Time and events change things. Nothing is, or should ever be, cast in stone forever. To do so would completely emasculate our Parliament. Those who argued for a confirmatory vote had every bit as much right to do so, as those who opposed it. There is nothing the least bit "disgusting" in holding opinions and campaigning for our Parliament to do what we think is best. What is disgusting is believing that to campaign for your beliefs is disgusting. No-one sought to stop the Eurosceptics campaigning for years. How is a general election anything but a referendum?
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Stirlingsays  25 Jun 22 8.48pm |
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Last minute shocker! [Tweet Link]
Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Jun 2022 8.50pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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BlueJay  UK 25 Jun 22 9.28pm |
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"Mike Pence Calls for National Abortion Ban"
The Life at Conception Act, sponsored by Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky, would declare that the right to life guaranteed by the Constitution begins at the moment of conception — effectively classifying all abortion as murder. So much for leaving it to the States... Edited by BlueJay (25 Jun 2022 9.28pm)
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 25 Jun 22 10.08pm |
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Originally posted by Teddy Eagle
How is a general election anything but a referendum? I really don't think you need an answer to that, do you? They are so completely different that any kind of comparison is meaningless. When we determine who will represent us in Parliament, we don't hand them a mandate and send them off as delegates. We expect them to use their wisdom to decide things on our behalf. We then judge their performance against the expectations they raised prior to gaining our votes, and decide whether to choose another the next time. Referendums are no more than opinion polls on specific issues. Or ought to be.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Teddy Eagle 25 Jun 22 11.58pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I really don't think you need an answer to that, do you? They are so completely different that any kind of comparison is meaningless. When we determine who will represent us in Parliament, we don't hand them a mandate and send them off as delegates. We expect them to use their wisdom to decide things on our behalf. We then judge their performance against the expectations they raised prior to gaining our votes, and decide whether to choose another the next time. Referendums are no more than opinion polls on specific issues. Or ought to be. How is an election not an opinion poll?
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| BlueJay UK 26 Jun 22 2.21am |
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Originally posted by cryrst
The majority in the USA don’t support this ruling so that makes out system a lot more sensible and fair ref brexit. Certainly. It at least is better aligned with the will of the people in that moment. It could be argued, re: the Supreme Court, that gifting so much power to so few is a mistake, but at any one point is time there is always likely to be one party that very much agrees with that and one that doesn't!
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| Stirlingsays 26 Jun 22 3.47am |
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Culture is downstream from law. Many people think their attitudes aren't influenced heavily from what they are told is desirable by the media and culture and school system, which itself takes its lead from law, which is decided by elites. If you look at public perceptions on climate change for example, being of an age I can remember when this was regarded as 'kook' territory. Yet, both legal and media, education changes affect and change public opinion....and suddenly what was minority opinion becomes majority. Going to a more controversial example. In sixties America there was strong support for the segregation laws. There was no majority public support for that change, yet the Democrats pushed it through and the culture changed later. Gay 'marriage' is another example of this......It's all part of the myth of Democracy being this organic thing than some imagine it to be. The reality is that the mainstream is an approved pathway laid down from on high, with rewards for being part of that mainstream. The majority adapt to whatever the mores are of the time coming from that. Whatever the age and whatever its attitudes most people fitted right into that because that's normal human nature and how you get on. The counter culture is by definition outside of it and traditionally persecuted. Now what is beneficial to society to a whole and what the motivations are of that age's particular elites are different questions entirely. Edited by Stirlingsays (26 Jun 2022 3.52am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 26 Jun 22 4.00am |
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Roe v Wade is all part of the inevitable partition of the US. Appending to my previous post what you will see is increased support over time within strongly Republican states that approve of 'pro life', while states that promote 'pro choice' will see increased or the same support for that....because the establishment in both will push those mores. The same thing is happening with gun laws. What you are seeing is a mostly peaceful civil 'war' being carried out with more and more people coming to recognise that. I strongly suspect that if say Trump wins in 2024 (personally I think they need an age limit) I see the Democrats being the strongest supporters of breaking the union. I see it as inevitable, but obviously I want it to be as peaceful and structured as possible.....The two Americas could still work together on all their mutual interests.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 26 Jun 22 7.34pm |
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Paul Joseph Watson's take.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Matov 26 Jun 22 7.42pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
What you are seeing is a mostly peaceful civil 'war' being carried out with more and more people coming to recognise that.
In the US this civil war might not be hot yet but its certainly warm. I reckon though the Left will be looking for another Georgre Floyd incident pretty soon to get their foot-soldiers out onto the streets again. This current abortion row is clearly not cutting the mustard when it comes to burning down US cities.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| Stirlingsays 26 Jun 22 7.48pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
I suspect all the people killed and the property and business damaged during all that BLM s***, cheered on by the Democrats, might question your 'peaceful' claim. In the US this civil war might not be hot yet but its certainly warm. I reckon though the Left will be looking for another Georgre Floyd incident pretty soon to get their foot-soldiers out onto the streets again. This current abortion row is clearly not cutting the mustard when it comes to burning down US cities. It could be done peacefully and I hope for that but I don't disagree with you.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 26 Jun 22 7.50pm |
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Anyway, in the morning, I'm off on holiday for the week, so I'll sign off here. Take it easy lads.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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