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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 cryrst  The garden of England 28 Dec 20 4.04pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
If you read my consistent argument it is that Parliament had the opportunity but failed to do their duty. There was always a majority who wanted to remain, until the 2019 election. It was Corbyn who actually caused us to Brexit. If he had been replaced and a government of national unity under a compromise PM established we could have turfed Johnson and his cronies out and stopped this. So whilst I believe in Parliamentary democracy when it fails, as it surely did, then changes need to be considered to avoid a recurrence. I don't blame the "leavers" at all. They are entitled to their views. They though did not have a majority in Parliament in 2016 and only got one by stealth in 2019. Their duty was and is to the majority even if it's a slim 52-48 for example.
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Phil’s Barber  Crowborough 28 Dec 20 6.16pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
If you read my consistent argument it is that Parliament had the opportunity but failed to do their duty. There was always a majority who wanted to remain, until the 2019 election. It was Corbyn who actually caused us to Brexit. If he had been replaced and a government of national unity under a compromise PM established we could have turfed Johnson and his cronies out and stopped this. So whilst I believe in Parliamentary democracy when it fails, as it surely did, then changes need to be considered to avoid a recurrence. I don't blame the "leavers" at all. They are entitled to their views. They though did not have a majority in Parliament in 2016 and only got one by stealth in 2019.
I make that 3-0 to ‘Leave’.
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 Hrolf The Ganger 28 Dec 20 6.24pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
As all we have heard from people like you are the childish epithets like "remoaners" the clear conclusion is you have no idea what you are talking about. A battle has been lost. The next started almost a year ago but for the time being it is enough for the "enemy" to continue to shoot themselves in the feet. There won't be any "resistance" at all. No-one wants to make things worse. Time is all that's needed. When the time is right the arguments and reminders will begin. Quietly at first but eventually the demands will become overwhelming and then the politics will react. We will rejoin. You can bet your house on it. There will still be the hard-core group who think like you and will be moaning in perpetuity about us "taking our country back". It's ever been so, but they are a small and diminishing group. What happened in 2016 wasn't a reflection of their views. It was just an unfortunate combination of events that conspired together. Because EU countries are doing so well? Brussels is running scared of the whole house of card collapsing. Why do you think they were so keen to avoid giving us an easy escape. Your kind will never admit defeat because that would mean you have to admit you were wrong. In your mind, that is impossible. Sad.
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| steeleye20 Croydon 28 Dec 20 6.38pm |
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Originally posted by Phil’s Barber
I make that 3-0 to ‘Leave’. At the May 2019 EU election, and in the GE 2019, over 50% of the vote went to the remain/further referendum parties. There was no majority for brexit in terms of the actual votes cast, but the seats in the FTP system do not reflect the actual votes cast. So 1-2 after VAR. VAR - Voter Adjusted Result.
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croydon proud  Any european country i fancy! 28 Dec 20 6.40pm |
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Seems the E.U are keen to get this signed off quick, officially confirmed today by all 27 countries, if the E.U 27 are happy, i"m happy,it"s a big world out there!
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| Phil’s Barber Crowborough 28 Dec 20 6.56pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
At the May 2019 EU election, and in the GE 2019, over 50% of the vote went to the remain/further referendum parties. There was no majority for brexit in terms of the actual votes cast, but the seats in the FTP system do not reflect the actual votes cast. So 1-2 after VAR. VAR - Voter Adjusted Result.
Even the bias BBC Headline reported ‘Brexit Party dominates as Tories and Labour suffer’ As for the 2019 General Election...you couldn’t have got a more emphatic victory for Leave. Most definitely 3-0.
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| steeleye20 Croydon 28 Dec 20 7.08pm |
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Originally posted by Phil’s Barber
Even the bias BBC Headline reported ‘Brexit Party dominates as Tories and Labour suffer’ As for the 2019 General Election...you couldn’t have got a more emphatic victory for Leave. Most definitely 3-0.
Point taken, but only in the UK voting system which does not reflect votes cast but seats. What I would say is that the government does not have the whole-hearted consent of the British people, as it did on entry, because the margin is too narrow. It means that people are not going to embrace brexit in fact they are probably sick of it. All the pleas to the public to make brexit work, building better etc. will not be heeded. Forget enthusiasm, it ain't gonna' happen.
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| Spiderman Horsham 28 Dec 20 7.15pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
So when you say Parliament fails you actually mean they didn't vote the way you wanted them to. Exactly
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 28 Dec 20 9.46pm |
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Originally posted by cryrst
Their duty was and is to the majority even if it's a slim 52-48 for example. It just isn't! Their duty is to their collective consciences. At the risk of repeating myself our MPs are NOT delegates who take instructions from us. They are our representatives, charged with determining what they believe is in our best interests. Laws are made by Parliament. Not in referendums, by governments, because of a PMs promises to respect a referendum, or by those made in a manifesto. No Parliament can or should be, hogtied by history and unable to react to events. Events such as those which occurred between 2016 and 2019 and revealed things that people didn't know when they voted. Parliament should have reacted to them, but they collectively failed, although the real blame lies squarely at Corbyn's door.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Teddy Eagle  28 Dec 20 9.55pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
It just isn't! Their duty is to their collective consciences. At the risk of repeating myself our MPs are NOT delegates who take instructions from us. They are our representatives, charged with determining what they believe is in our best interests. Laws are made by Parliament. Not in referendums, by governments, because of a PMs promises to respect a referendum, or by those made in a manifesto. No Parliament can or should be, hogtied by history and unable to react to events. Events such as those which occurred between 2016 and 2019 and revealed things that people didn't know when they voted. Parliament should have reacted to them, but they collectively failed, although the real blame lies squarely at Corbyn's door. All that would be believable if politician’s consciousnesses were guided by what is best for the country rather than a desire to gain or stay in power.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 28 Dec 20 9.56pm |
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Originally posted by Phil’s Barber
I make that 3-0 to ‘Leave’. The referendum result was always a sideshow. It was Cameron's promise to respect it and the fear of UKIP that messed things up for the Tories. Corbyn messed things for Labour. Together they messed things up for us. Those Leavers who cling to a very close 4-year-old refendendum result as the justification for continuing with Brexit are totally missing the point, but they are very unlikely to get it now. We are where we are. Now we start the fight back. PR being high on the agenda.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 28 Dec 20 10.07pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Because EU countries are doing so well? Brussels is running scared of the whole house of card collapsing. Why do you think they were so keen to avoid giving us an easy escape. Your kind will never admit defeat because that would mean you have to admit you were wrong. In your mind, that is impossible. Sad. We are all going through difficult times but whilst there will always be improvements to be made the fundamental wisdom of the EU project remains untarnished. There are things that are more efficiently done together than alone. It's the principle of subsidiarity which needs to be remembered and kept at the heart of the EU. The EU will survive these difficult times and emerge stronger because of the fundamentals. We are unlikely to, for exactly the same reason. If I am wrong then I will be more than happy to admit it. If I am around at the time of course. Will you though? For people like you just getting out seems the justification for everything. So you could not now ever be wrong. We could end up living in caves and you would claim success because they would be "our" caves.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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