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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 28 Dec 20 1.17pm
Originally posted by Spiderman Yep. Just read the bbs. One post on there, couple of weeks ago “ I hope all those that voted leave, lose their jobs and they and their families suffer for a long time” how very nice Which simply confirms there are stupid and nasty people everywhere. Just because one idiot says such things doesn't mean that everyone who opposes Brexit thinks the same way. Nor does it mean that everyone who supports Brexit isn't an idiot! For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 28 Dec 20 1.17pm

Originally posted by Spiderman

Yep. Just read the bbs. One post on there, couple of weeks ago “ I hope all those that voted leave, lose their jobs and they and their families suffer for a long time” how very nice

Which simply confirms there are stupid and nasty people everywhere. Just because one idiot says such things doesn't mean that everyone who opposes Brexit thinks the same way.

Nor does it mean that everyone who supports Brexit isn't an idiot!

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 28 Dec 20 1.26pm
Originally posted by Badger11 I really don't know what will happen with the EU in the future but I don't think it will collapse. With the UK gone the EU is losing a major financial contributor some of the smaller countries like Ireland may end up becoming givers rather than takers but it will still rely heavily on Germany and France to fund it. Italy and Spain are the 2 big economies that the EU would wish to go from taker to giver but that is not likely to happen for a long time so how then do they square this circle. The next 7 countries to join are all takers so I doubt the EU is in a rush to add them then of course there is Turkey and for the ambitious others such as Russia and Ukraine assuming you can get around the politics. It is possible that the EU will eventually recognise that it needs a 2 track approach possibly even based on it's new relationship with the UK. An inner circle of financial sound countries with closer integration and full EU membership. And then an outer circle of prospective EU candidates who can only move on once their economies are aligned and also countries who don't want to join such as the UK. This outer circle would be more of a free trade group like NAFTA so it is possible that countries like Russia would agree to join as long as there was no political angle. Anyway whatever happens I think the current funding will start to change as an EU paid for by Germany and France will become too problematic. Edited by Badger11 (28 Dec 2020 10.03am) My daughter did her dissertation on the probability of a two speed Europe 35 years ago. So it's hardly a new idea. Actually I agree that is the most likely ultimate destination but unlike the Brexiteers I would rather we had stayed in to help shape and direct it, as a counterbalance to Germany and France. I remain convinced we will eventually again become members of a reformed EU but being on the outside makes things harder for us. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 28 Dec 20 1.26pm

Originally posted by Badger11

I really don't know what will happen with the EU in the future but I don't think it will collapse.

With the UK gone the EU is losing a major financial contributor some of the smaller countries like Ireland may end up becoming givers rather than takers but it will still rely heavily on Germany and France to fund it. Italy and Spain are the 2 big economies that the EU would wish to go from taker to giver but that is not likely to happen for a long time so how then do they square this circle.

The next 7 countries to join are all takers so I doubt the EU is in a rush to add them then of course there is Turkey and for the ambitious others such as Russia and Ukraine assuming you can get around the politics.

It is possible that the EU will eventually recognise that it needs a 2 track approach possibly even based on it's new relationship with the UK.

An inner circle of financial sound countries with closer integration and full EU membership. And then an outer circle of prospective EU candidates who can only move on once their economies are aligned and also countries who don't want to join such as the UK.

This outer circle would be more of a free trade group like NAFTA so it is possible that countries like Russia would agree to join as long as there was no political angle.

Anyway whatever happens I think the current funding will start to change as an EU paid for by Germany and France will become too problematic.

Edited by Badger11 (28 Dec 2020 10.03am)

My daughter did her dissertation on the probability of a two speed Europe 35 years ago. So it's hardly a new idea. Actually I agree that is the most likely ultimate destination but unlike the Brexiteers I would rather we had stayed in to help shape and direct it, as a counterbalance to Germany and France. I remain convinced we will eventually again become members of a reformed EU but being on the outside makes things harder for us.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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cryrst The garden of England 28 Dec 20 1.38pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle It was Cameron's initial misjudgement that started the whole thing. He allowed the concern over the future integrity of the Tory party in the face of the UKIP threat to outweigh the interests of the country. The EU tried to help a little so they cannot be held responsible. Whether they now wish they had offered more is a moot point. The mess started with Cameron and his promise to "respect" the result when it ought to have been made clear that any referendum in the UK is consultative and not binding. Decision making being in the hands of Parliament a no vote would then have given him the opportunity to negotiate better terms which Parliament could then have approved and the issue then fought out at the next GE. If UKIP then won a majority, game over. This was 100% party politics at it's worst and we will all suffer as a consequence. So you would have been happy if it were a no vote then parliament decided leave was better if the eu never came back to the table. I dont think so wissie and you dont either. That is the moot point really! And how will we suffer? It had to be honoured whichever way it went.
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cryrst

The garden of England 28 Dec 20 1.38pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

It was Cameron's initial misjudgement that started the whole thing. He allowed the concern over the future integrity of the Tory party in the face of the UKIP threat to outweigh the interests of the country. The EU tried to help a little so they cannot be held responsible. Whether they now wish they had offered more is a moot point. The mess started with Cameron and his promise to "respect" the result when it ought to have been made clear that any referendum in the UK is consultative and not binding. Decision making being in the hands of Parliament a no vote would then have given him the opportunity to negotiate better terms which Parliament could then have approved and the issue then fought out at the next GE. If UKIP then won a majority, game over. This was 100% party politics at it's worst and we will all suffer as a consequence.

So you would have been happy if it were a no vote then parliament decided leave was better if the eu never came back to the table. I dont think so wissie and you dont either. That is the moot point really! And how will we suffer?
It had to be honoured whichever way it went.

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Badger11 Beckenham 28 Dec 20 1.39pm
Attachment: VID-20201228-WA0000.mp4 (8,632.80Kb) One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 28 Dec 20 1.39pm

Attachment: VID-20201228-WA0000.mp4 (8,632.80Kb)

One more point

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 28 Dec 20 1.43pm
Originally posted by Matov There is worse out there. Not so much on the BBS but there are plenty of examples of people publicly celebrating the deaths of their own family members for having the audacity to vote Leave. The vitriol and the spite has been a torrent and from people who love nothing more than to virtue signal their own supposed tolerance and understanding on any and every other aspect of their lives. But perhaps now is a time to move on. Once January 1st has arrived perhaps we can begin to try and move on from this but the Remoaners (and again I have to stress that I bear not a drop of malice to anybody who voted Remain in 2016 and then just acted like a decent human being and accepted the vote for what it was) have a lot to be ashamed about given their disgusting behaviour ever since. Not sure if the damage done can ever be reversed but I think we need to at least try, even if for me that will be bloody difficult. We all have no other choice other than to make the best of where we are, because that's where we are, whether we believe, as I do, that it was all an unnecessary and avoidable mess, or as others do that it's a golden opportunity. I do though think you need to rethink this persistent vitriolic hatred you show to those who have been arguing since 2016 for a rethink. The anti-EU lobby didn't just sit back and accept things for decades. Their opinions might have been shown some scorn on occasions but generally were accorded respect and debated accordingly. What's the difference now? There are many reasons why people feel the 2016 referendum to have been a fundamentally flawed exercise. Those that feel that way do so with honesty and integrity. We believe that mistakes were made, interference happened and knowledge increased. Nothing is ever cast in stone for all time so why get so upset when some point that out? In 3 days time the term "Brexit" becomes redundant, along with "leaver" and "remainer". We will have fully left and a new era begins. One in which new terms will need to be found for those who wish us to stay outside the EU and those who wish us to rejoin. For this is all a continuum. A battle was lost. But this is a war which is very far from over. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 28 Dec 20 1.43pm

Originally posted by Matov

There is worse out there. Not so much on the BBS but there are plenty of examples of people publicly celebrating the deaths of their own family members for having the audacity to vote Leave.

The vitriol and the spite has been a torrent and from people who love nothing more than to virtue signal their own supposed tolerance and understanding on any and every other aspect of their lives.

But perhaps now is a time to move on. Once January 1st has arrived perhaps we can begin to try and move on from this but the Remoaners (and again I have to stress that I bear not a drop of malice to anybody who voted Remain in 2016 and then just acted like a decent human being and accepted the vote for what it was) have a lot to be ashamed about given their disgusting behaviour ever since.

Not sure if the damage done can ever be reversed but I think we need to at least try, even if for me that will be bloody difficult.

We all have no other choice other than to make the best of where we are, because that's where we are, whether we believe, as I do, that it was all an unnecessary and avoidable mess, or as others do that it's a golden opportunity.

I do though think you need to rethink this persistent vitriolic hatred you show to those who have been arguing since 2016 for a rethink. The anti-EU lobby didn't just sit back and accept things for decades. Their opinions might have been shown some scorn on occasions but generally were accorded respect and debated accordingly. What's the difference now? There are many reasons why people feel the 2016 referendum to have been a fundamentally flawed exercise. Those that feel that way do so with honesty and integrity. We believe that mistakes were made, interference happened and knowledge increased. Nothing is ever cast in stone for all time so why get so upset when some point that out?

In 3 days time the term "Brexit" becomes redundant, along with "leaver" and "remainer". We will have fully left and a new era begins. One in which new terms will need to be found for those who wish us to stay outside the EU and those who wish us to rejoin.

For this is all a continuum. A battle was lost. But this is a war which is very far from over.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 28 Dec 20 1.48pm
Originally posted by cryrst So you would have been happy if it were a no vote then parliament decided leave was better if the eu never came back to the table. I dont think so wissie and you dont either. That is the moot point really! And how will we suffer? It had to be honoured whichever way it went. I would have accepted whatever decision was taken by Parliament. I support our Parliamentary democracy. It did NOT have to be honoured at all. Cameron resigned. A new leader could have blamed him for saying things that Parliament had not voted for and reversed it, especially with the evidence then available from the security services of the interference which tipped the balance in a very tight result. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 28 Dec 20 1.48pm

Originally posted by cryrst

I would have accepted whatever decision was taken by Parliament. I support our Parliamentary democracy. It did NOT have to be honoured at all. Cameron resigned. A new leader could have blamed him for saying things that Parliament had not voted for and reversed it, especially with the evidence then available from the security services of the interference which tipped the balance in a very tight result.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Stirlingsays 28 Dec 20 1.50pm
Originally posted by Badger11 Happy days. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

28 Dec 20 1.50pm

Originally posted by Badger11

Happy days.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Badger11 Beckenham 28 Dec 20 2.10pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I would have accepted whatever decision was taken by Parliament. I support our Parliamentary democracy. It did NOT have to be honoured at all. Cameron resigned. A new leader could have blamed him for saying things that Parliament had not voted for and reversed it, especially with the evidence then available from the security services of the interference which tipped the balance in a very tight result. So what are you complaining about then Parliament has repeatedly voted for Brexit. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 28 Dec 20 2.10pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I would have accepted whatever decision was taken by Parliament. I support our Parliamentary democracy. It did NOT have to be honoured at all. Cameron resigned. A new leader could have blamed him for saying things that Parliament had not voted for and reversed it, especially with the evidence then available from the security services of the interference which tipped the balance in a very tight result.

So what are you complaining about then Parliament has repeatedly voted for Brexit.

One more point

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 28 Dec 20 2.10pm
Originally posted by Eaglecoops I find it rather ironic that a couple of the biggest remoaners on here are retired. They add nothing to our country or to Europe whether we are in or out. Not sure why they give a damn either way. They are simply as described, moaners. I am retired. I also contribute significantly to the economy as a consumer of goods and services. I also own rental properties which provide homes for several low-income families. I have opposed Brexit and continue to believe it to be a mistake of epic proportions. I am not though a "moaner"! Nor, in my opinion, are most of those who think like me. We aren't moaning, which is an entirely negative attitude without any purpose. We are arguing for positive changes as a consequence of the failings we see. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 28 Dec 20 2.10pm

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

I find it rather ironic that a couple of the biggest remoaners on here are retired. They add nothing to our country or to Europe whether we are in or out. Not sure why they give a damn either way.

They are simply as described, moaners.

I am retired. I also contribute significantly to the economy as a consumer of goods and services. I also own rental properties which provide homes for several low-income families.

I have opposed Brexit and continue to believe it to be a mistake of epic proportions. I am not though a "moaner"! Nor, in my opinion, are most of those who think like me. We aren't moaning, which is an entirely negative attitude without any purpose. We are arguing for positive changes as a consequence of the failings we see.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Matov 28 Dec 20 2.13pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I do though think you need to rethink this persistent vitriolic hatred you show to those who have been arguing since 2016 for a rethink. Never. Till my dying day, I will harbour a deep loathing for any and every person who sort to try and render my vote, along with over 17 million others, pointless. Because that is what it was. A disregard for the very basic principle of one person, one vote, expressed in the UK's single biggest exercise in direct democracy. Yes, I will have to learn to live with that and still have kept some (very few) Remoaners in my immediate circles because our friendship had sufficient deepness to survive it although still damage done but I have cut out far, far more with no desire to reach out again. Can barely exchange a civil word with such people. Normally I have zero issues in having friendships with people who have different views from me because that is how the world should be but people who sort to undermine the very basic core principle of how our Democracy functions? No. Goes beyond even that. Shameful, shameful behaviour. But I boring myself about this now so will strive to let it go. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

28 Dec 20 2.13pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I do though think you need to rethink this persistent vitriolic hatred you show to those who have been arguing since 2016 for a rethink.

Never. Till my dying day, I will harbour a deep loathing for any and every person who sort to try and render my vote, along with over 17 million others, pointless. Because that is what it was. A disregard for the very basic principle of one person, one vote, expressed in the UK's single biggest exercise in direct democracy.

Yes, I will have to learn to live with that and still have kept some (very few) Remoaners in my immediate circles because our friendship had sufficient deepness to survive it although still damage done but I have cut out far, far more with no desire to reach out again. Can barely exchange a civil word with such people.

Normally I have zero issues in having friendships with people who have different views from me because that is how the world should be but people who sort to undermine the very basic core principle of how our Democracy functions? No. Goes beyond even that. Shameful, shameful behaviour.

But I boring myself about this now so will strive to let it go.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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steeleye20 Croydon 28 Dec 20 2.22pm
How far are we in the brexit saga. I think 30% of the way. I don't know the ending as it is just too far away. I predict a labour PM will take us back in 2027/9.
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steeleye20

Croydon 28 Dec 20 2.22pm

How far are we in the brexit saga.

I think 30% of the way.

I don't know the ending as it is just too far away.

I predict a labour PM will take us back in 2027/9.

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cryrst The garden of England 28 Dec 20 2.23pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I would have accepted whatever decision was taken by Parliament. I support our Parliamentary democracy. It did NOT have to be honoured at all. Cameron resigned. A new leader could have blamed him for saying things that Parliament had not voted for and reversed it, especially with the evidence then available from the security services of the interference which tipped the balance in a very tight result. Go on then admit it. It was a right decision in that parliament made the correct one. Leave!
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cryrst

The garden of England 28 Dec 20 2.23pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Go on then admit it. It was a right decision in that parliament made the correct one. Leave!

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