General Election 2017

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General Election 2017

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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 30 May 17 2.18pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger I refer you to my previous posts. This is not about personal experience v evidence from other countries. This is idealism v reality. You won't ever get equality in education or anything else. All you will do is move the goal posts. Society has to have strata in order to function and that is what nature demonstrates. But that's not an argument for the status quo. The system is certainly not set in stone, demonstrated quite well by Gove's abysmal meddling with the system for 5 years. It's also saying that we couldn't have a system that works perfectly well elsewhere, or even try to have a system more in line with those that have been successful elsewhere. It is totally realistic to not have grammar schools. Education shouldn't be used as a tool to create social strata, it should be an opportunity for kids to develop to their full potential and provide an equality of opportunity. Saying it's unrealistic without even bothering to try is pretty sad.
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CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 30 May 17 2.18pm

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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I refer you to my previous posts.

This is not about personal experience v evidence from other countries. This is idealism v reality.
You won't ever get equality in education or anything else. All you will do is move the goal posts. Society has to have strata in order to function and that is what nature demonstrates.

But that's not an argument for the status quo. The system is certainly not set in stone, demonstrated quite well by Gove's abysmal meddling with the system for 5 years.

It's also saying that we couldn't have a system that works perfectly well elsewhere, or even try to have a system more in line with those that have been successful elsewhere.

It is totally realistic to not have grammar schools. Education shouldn't be used as a tool to create social strata, it should be an opportunity for kids to develop to their full potential and provide an equality of opportunity. Saying it's unrealistic without even bothering to try is pretty sad.

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Stirlingsays 30 May 17 2.27pm
Originally posted by elgrande I love that phrase Stirling, red Tory... Thanks, it isn't mine but I feel it describes a certain right wing group. Marx had some good commentary on the flaws of capitalism....He just had no good solutions. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

30 May 17 2.27pm

Originally posted by elgrande

I love that phrase Stirling, red Tory...

Thanks, it isn't mine but I feel it describes a certain right wing group.

Marx had some good commentary on the flaws of capitalism....He just had no good solutions.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 30 May 17 2.27pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 What is so difficult that a presenter like Paxman or Marr cannot ask a direct question ? I would be exasperated especially for Corbyn as his policies are completely overlooked and as a voter I want to hear them from him not what probably didn't happen in Northern Ireland 30 years ago. The problem for Corbyn is that he has that and other baggage and there are a lot of people across the political divide that it does matter to. He should have distanced himself from it all, but he can't and there's a good reason fro that, and it'd more than Abbott's hairstyle the dignified don't even enter in the game
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Y Ddraig Goch

In The Crowd 30 May 17 2.27pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

What is so difficult that a presenter like Paxman or Marr cannot ask a direct question ?

I would be exasperated especially for Corbyn as his policies are completely overlooked and as a voter I want to hear them from him not what probably didn't happen in Northern Ireland 30 years ago.

The problem for Corbyn is that he has that and other baggage and there are a lot of people across the political divide that it does matter to.

He should have distanced himself from it all, but he can't and there's a good reason fro that, and it'd more than Abbott's hairstyle

the dignified don't even enter in the game

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Hrolf The Ganger 30 May 17 2.27pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle But that's not an argument for the status quo. The system is certainly not set in stone, demonstrated quite well by Gove's abysmal meddling with the system for 5 years. It's also saying that we couldn't have a system that works perfectly well elsewhere, or even try to have a system more in line with those that have been successful elsewhere. It is totally realistic to not have grammar schools. Education shouldn't be used as a tool to create social strata, it should be an opportunity for kids to develop to their full potential and provide an equality of opportunity. Saying it's unrealistic without even bothering to try is pretty sad. You need to ask yourself why we haven't tried it. Labour's reforms in the sixties were a disaster. If that is any indication, a fairer system just means a lowering of standards.
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Hrolf The Ganger

30 May 17 2.27pm

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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

But that's not an argument for the status quo. The system is certainly not set in stone, demonstrated quite well by Gove's abysmal meddling with the system for 5 years.

It's also saying that we couldn't have a system that works perfectly well elsewhere, or even try to have a system more in line with those that have been successful elsewhere.

You need to ask yourself why we haven't tried it.
Labour's reforms in the sixties were a disaster. If that is any indication, a fairer system just means a lowering of standards.

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Stirlingsays 30 May 17 2.37pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger You need to ask yourself why we haven't tried it. Labour's reforms in the sixties were a disaster. If that is any indication, a fairer system just means a lowering of standards. It didn't have to be that way. We do have a sizable underclass with a cultural aversion to high educational achievement.... Academic or vocational. However they are our underclass. I want every child to have access to the best of culture that we can produce. How do we change this? It would take a root and branch reform of the institutions and changes to human rights law. Not really going to happen is it. Edited by Stirlingsays (30 May 2017 2.46pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

30 May 17 2.37pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

You need to ask yourself why we haven't tried it.
Labour's reforms in the sixties were a disaster. If that is any indication, a fairer system just means a lowering of standards.

It didn't have to be that way.

We do have a sizable underclass with a cultural aversion to high educational achievement.... Academic or vocational. However they are our underclass. I want every child to have access to the best of culture that we can produce.

How do we change this? It would take a root and branch reform of the institutions and changes to human rights law.

Not really going to happen is it.

Edited by Stirlingsays (30 May 2017 2.46pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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matt_himself Matataland 30 May 17 2.40pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 What 30 odd years ago. Shouldn't the questions be about policies now, and the election, rather than his relationship with Sinn Fein in the 80s. Maybe for fairness we should look at the collusion between the UK security services and the UVF and others. I think someone whom has spent a considerable amount of his life opposing the British state, and whom now wishes to be its leader, should be questioned as to his motives. If Nick Griffin joined the Tories, people would rightly question his past. Why should Jezza not be questioned? "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 30 May 17 2.40pm

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

What 30 odd years ago. Shouldn't the questions be about policies now, and the election, rather than his relationship with Sinn Fein in the 80s. Maybe for fairness we should look at the collusion between the UK security services and the UVF and others.

I think someone whom has spent a considerable amount of his life opposing the British state, and whom now wishes to be its leader, should be questioned as to his motives.

If Nick Griffin joined the Tories, people would rightly question his past.

Why should Jezza not be questioned?

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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Hrolf The Ganger 30 May 17 2.47pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays It didn't have to be that way. We do have a sizable underclass with a cultural aversion to high educational achievement.... Academic or vocational. However they are our underclass. I want every child to have access to the best of culture can produce. How do we change this? It would take a root and branch reform of the institutions and changes to human rights law. Not really going to happen is it. That is all about society and not schools. A hypothetical society that has equality for all would have educational equality. You and I both know that will never happen because nature hates parity Even ants have a queen.
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Hrolf The Ganger

30 May 17 2.47pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

It didn't have to be that way.

We do have a sizable underclass with a cultural aversion to high educational achievement.... Academic or vocational. However they are our underclass. I want every child to have access to the best of culture can produce.

How do we change this? It would take a root and branch reform of the institutions and changes to human rights law.

Not really going to happen is it.

That is all about society and not schools. A hypothetical society that has equality for all would have educational equality. You and I both know that will never happen because nature hates parity

Even ants have a queen.

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Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 30 May 17 2.51pm
Originally posted by matt_himself I think someone whom has spent a considerable amount of his life opposing the British state, and whom now wishes to be its leader, should be questioned as to his motives. If Nick Griffin joined the Tories, people would rightly question his past. Why should Jezza not be questioned? It isn't just the IRA either, which also weakens his position, as does Abbott wanting to overthrow the British state and abolish MI5. She couldn't even express regret and just laughed it off. If Corbyn had just the one instance he couls get away with it. he has spent his political life trying to undermine the country so is rightly called out on it now the dignified don't even enter in the game
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Y Ddraig Goch

In The Crowd 30 May 17 2.51pm

Originally posted by matt_himself

I think someone whom has spent a considerable amount of his life opposing the British state, and whom now wishes to be its leader, should be questioned as to his motives.

If Nick Griffin joined the Tories, people would rightly question his past.

Why should Jezza not be questioned?

It isn't just the IRA either, which also weakens his position, as does Abbott wanting to overthrow the British state and abolish MI5.

She couldn't even express regret and just laughed it off.

If Corbyn had just the one instance he couls get away with it. he has spent his political life trying to undermine the country so is rightly called out on it now

the dignified don't even enter in the game

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susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 30 May 17 3.00pm
Originally posted by Mstrobez Love him or hate him, Corbyn came across excellently tonight and Theresa was embarrassing. I think this will be a closer run thing than many Tories expect. You must have been watching a different program to the rest of us, well most of us that is. He cam out with the same old rubbish he always does I am afraid. Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.
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susmik

PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 30 May 17 3.00pm

Originally posted by Mstrobez

Love him or hate him, Corbyn came across excellently tonight and Theresa was embarrassing. I think this will be a closer run thing than many Tories expect.

You must have been watching a different program to the rest of us, well most of us that is. He cam out with the same old rubbish he always does I am afraid.

Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

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Lyons550 Shirley 30 May 17 3.03pm
The problem as I see it, is that no matter where it is you send your children to school its a battle of your parenting skills against those of others. In Grammar schools you're less likely to have children who couldn't give a s*** then you are in the Comprehensive system. So how about linking school attendance and behaviour to Child benefits? That way the onus is on the Parents / Family structure that seems to be fundamental to creating an environment in which children can learn without the added issues that disruptive children create. Just a thought...and certainly not a one size fits all solution Edited by Lyons550 (30 May 2017 3.03pm) The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World
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Lyons550

Shirley 30 May 17 3.03pm

The problem as I see it, is that no matter where it is you send your children to school its a battle of your parenting skills against those of others.

In Grammar schools you're less likely to have children who couldn't give a s*** then you are in the Comprehensive system.

So how about linking school attendance and behaviour to Child benefits?

That way the onus is on the Parents / Family structure that seems to be fundamental to creating an environment in which children can learn without the added issues that disruptive children create.

Just a thought...and certainly not a one size fits all solution

Edited by Lyons550 (30 May 2017 3.03pm)

The Voice of Reason In An Otherwise Mediocre World

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matt_himself Matataland 30 May 17 3.06pm
Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch It isn't just the IRA either, which also weakens his position, as does Abbott wanting to overthrow the British state and abolish MI5. She couldn't even express regret and just laughed it off. If Corbyn had just the one instance he couls get away with it. he has spent his political life trying to undermine the country so is rightly called out on it now I agree. The left want to frame the election debate around the uncosted and infeasible policies Labour have presented the public. As if the debate is as simple as 'we will give you free money'. Well, it's not free and someone has to pay for it. This is also about the character of those whom want to lead the country and, rightly, the likes of Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott will be scrutinised over their past, just as much as Boris is over some of the offensive comments he has made. "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 30 May 17 3.06pm

Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch

It isn't just the IRA either, which also weakens his position, as does Abbott wanting to overthrow the British state and abolish MI5.

She couldn't even express regret and just laughed it off.

If Corbyn had just the one instance he couls get away with it. he has spent his political life trying to undermine the country so is rightly called out on it now

I agree.

The left want to frame the election debate around the uncosted and infeasible policies Labour have presented the public. As if the debate is as simple as 'we will give you free money'. Well, it's not free and someone has to pay for it.

This is also about the character of those whom want to lead the country and, rightly, the likes of Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott will be scrutinised over their past, just as much as Boris is over some of the offensive comments he has made.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 30 May 17 3.06pm
Originally posted by croydon proud Have you read the daily mail two page spread about the conservative bullingdon club boys,,camerom prime minister, osborne,,chancellor. and boris london mayor,,,,breaking london taxi laws to ,,,errrr, how can i put it,, not line their own pockets or further their careers,,,,how anyone could vote for this rabble,,who might be inside if they wernt members of the bullingdon club,,,is beyond me! yes, all have disappeared bar boris,,our foreign secretary god help us,,,and i dont dislike theresa,,,seems nice enough, but really,,,with a CONSERVATIVE pm relying on the BRITISH TAX PAYER to pay for a companys staffs wages , worth billion, via tax credits, just because his childs godmother is head of the company breaking London taxi laws that have exhisted for hundreds of years is unbelievable,,do you really want to pay for a company worth £66 billion staff wages? Just because they arent actually based in the uk, yet they have 130000, yes one hundred and thirty thousand drivers, and they dont actually appear to be a taxi company, have denied it, ony an app,,unbelievable! Do you believe EVERYTHING you read in the papers ??? I suggest you just vote for Labour and be done with it and when the Tories with the election you might just write something that makes any sense although quite a few on here will say it was a rigged election when Theresa May is still Prime minister. There are going to be a lot of sad posters on here in ten days time having to swallow their pride and having to admit Corbyn is absolutely cr@p... Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.
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susmik

PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 30 May 17 3.06pm

Originally posted by croydon proud

Have you read the daily mail two page spread about the conservative bullingdon club boys,,camerom prime minister, osborne,,chancellor. and boris london mayor,,,,breaking london taxi laws to ,,,errrr, how can i put it,, not line their own pockets or further their careers,,,,how anyone could vote for this rabble,,who might be inside if they wernt members of the bullingdon club,,,is beyond me! yes, all have disappeared bar boris,,our foreign secretary god help us,,,and i dont dislike theresa,,,seems nice enough, but really,,,with a CONSERVATIVE pm relying on the BRITISH TAX PAYER to pay for a companys staffs wages , worth billion, via tax credits, just because his childs godmother is head of the company breaking London taxi laws that have exhisted for hundreds of years is unbelievable,,do you really want to pay for a company worth £66 billion staff wages? Just because they arent actually based in the uk, yet they have 130000, yes one hundred and thirty thousand drivers, and they dont actually appear to be a taxi company, have denied it, ony an app,,unbelievable!

Do you believe EVERYTHING you read in the papers ???
I suggest you just vote for Labour and be done with it and when the Tories with the election you might just write something that makes any sense although quite a few on here will say it was a rigged election when Theresa May is still Prime minister. There are going to be a lot of sad posters on here in ten days time having to swallow their pride and having to admit Corbyn is absolutely cr@p...

Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

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