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chris123 hove actually 28 Dec 20 11.32am
Originally posted by Eaglecoops I find it rather ironic that a couple of the biggest remoaners on here are retired. They add nothing to our country or to Europe whether we are in or out. Not sure why they give a damn either way. They are simply as described, moaners. The power of the grey pound maybe?
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chris123

hove actually 28 Dec 20 11.32am

Originally posted by Eaglecoops

I find it rather ironic that a couple of the biggest remoaners on here are retired. They add nothing to our country or to Europe whether we are in or out. Not sure why they give a damn either way.

They are simply as described, moaners.

The power of the grey pound maybe?

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steeleye20 Croydon 28 Dec 20 11.40am
A trade deal that creates trade barriers, rather than removes them, cannot create prosperity. It is pure Johnson-balls. The 'chumocracy' is so disdainful of democracy public they can only be bothered to debate an important treaty for one day. The whole thing is a political power-grab by the tory right, the 'rentier' society, it is not about trade. Johnson is the most shambolic leader the UK has produced, but he is not daft and pursued self-interest aided by a complete lack of opposition and the gullibility of the UK voter. No good for the country of course, you would not want brexit, pandemic and recession together but the consequences will not be felt by the tories, that is what the public are for.
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steeleye20

Croydon 28 Dec 20 11.40am

A trade deal that creates trade barriers, rather than removes them, cannot create prosperity.

It is pure Johnson-balls.

The 'chumocracy' is so disdainful of democracy public they can only be bothered to debate an important treaty for one day.

The whole thing is a political power-grab by the tory right, the 'rentier' society, it is not about trade.

Johnson is the most shambolic leader the UK has produced, but he is not daft and pursued self-interest
aided by a complete lack of opposition and the gullibility of the UK voter.

No good for the country of course, you would not want brexit, pandemic and recession together but the consequences will not be felt by the tories, that is what the public are for.

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Spiderman Horsham 28 Dec 20 11.47am
Originally posted by steeleye20 A trade deal that creates trade barriers, rather than removes them, cannot create prosperity. It is pure Johnson-balls. The 'chumocracy' is so disdainful of democracy public they can only be bothered to debate an important treaty for one day. The whole thing is a political power-grab by the tory right, the 'rentier' society, it is not about trade. Johnson is the most shambolic leader the UK has produced, but he is not daft and pursued self-interest aided by a complete lack of opposition and the gullibility of the UK voter. No good for the country of course, you would not want brexit, pandemic and recession together but the consequences will not be felt by the tories, that is what the public are for.
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Spiderman

Horsham 28 Dec 20 11.47am

Originally posted by steeleye20

A trade deal that creates trade barriers, rather than removes them, cannot create prosperity.

It is pure Johnson-balls.

The 'chumocracy' is so disdainful of democracy public they can only be bothered to debate an important treaty for one day.

The whole thing is a political power-grab by the tory right, the 'rentier' society, it is not about trade.

Johnson is the most shambolic leader the UK has produced, but he is not daft and pursued self-interest
aided by a complete lack of opposition and the gullibility of the UK voter.

No good for the country of course, you would not want brexit, pandemic and recession together but the consequences will not be felt by the tories, that is what the public are for.

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steeleye20 Croydon 28 Dec 20 12.07pm
Originally posted by Spiderman
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steeleye20

Croydon 28 Dec 20 12.07pm

Originally posted by Spiderman

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Badger11 Beckenham 28 Dec 20 12.13pm
Originally posted by Matov There is worse out there. Not so much on the BBS but there are plenty of examples of people publicly celebrating the deaths of their own family members for having the audacity to vote Leave. The vitriol and the spite has been a torrent and from people who love nothing more than to virtue signal their own supposed tolerance and understanding on any and every other aspect of their lives. But perhaps now is a time to move on. Once January 1st has arrived perhaps we can begin to try and move on from this but the Remoaners (and again I have to stress that I bear not a drop of malice to anybody who voted Remain in 2016 and then just acted like a decent human being and accepted the vote for what it was) have a lot to be ashamed about given their disgusting behaviour ever since. Not sure if the damage done can ever be reversed but I think we need to at least try, even if for me that will be bloody difficult. Agreed. This is bigger even than Brexit. It was explained to me by a bunch of lefties that groups like Extinction Rebellion and BLM etc. are forced to bring London to a standstill as that is the only option open to them due to the 2 party system. I then pointed out that we live in a democracy and that Nigel Farage had just shown with UKIP and the Brexit Party that if your cause is just and enough people believe in it the system does work. That went down like a lead balloon, in other words a number of people in this country believe their opinion matters above the majority and so direct action not voting is the answer. I fear that we will get more of this not less. PS How many votes did the Greens get in 2019? Not nearly enough so apparently the rest of the country is wrong headed, we should listen to the white middle class women when they stop the traffic. Sigh. Edited by Badger11 (28 Dec 2020 12.15pm) One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 28 Dec 20 12.13pm

Originally posted by Matov

There is worse out there. Not so much on the BBS but there are plenty of examples of people publicly celebrating the deaths of their own family members for having the audacity to vote Leave.

The vitriol and the spite has been a torrent and from people who love nothing more than to virtue signal their own supposed tolerance and understanding on any and every other aspect of their lives.

But perhaps now is a time to move on. Once January 1st has arrived perhaps we can begin to try and move on from this but the Remoaners (and again I have to stress that I bear not a drop of malice to anybody who voted Remain in 2016 and then just acted like a decent human being and accepted the vote for what it was) have a lot to be ashamed about given their disgusting behaviour ever since.

Not sure if the damage done can ever be reversed but I think we need to at least try, even if for me that will be bloody difficult.

Agreed. This is bigger even than Brexit.

It was explained to me by a bunch of lefties that groups like Extinction Rebellion and BLM etc. are forced to bring London to a standstill as that is the only option open to them due to the 2 party system.

I then pointed out that we live in a democracy and that Nigel Farage had just shown with UKIP and the Brexit Party that if your cause is just and enough people believe in it the system does work.

That went down like a lead balloon, in other words a number of people in this country believe their opinion matters above the majority and so direct action not voting is the answer.

I fear that we will get more of this not less.

PS
How many votes did the Greens get in 2019? Not nearly enough so apparently the rest of the country is wrong headed, we should listen to the white middle class women when they stop the traffic. Sigh.

Edited by Badger11 (28 Dec 2020 12.15pm)

One more point

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Hrolf The Ganger 28 Dec 20 12.17pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 A trade deal that creates trade barriers, rather than removes them, cannot create prosperity. It is pure Johnson-balls. The 'chumocracy' is so disdainful of democracy public they can only be bothered to debate an important treaty for one day. The whole thing is a political power-grab by the tory right, the 'rentier' society, it is not about trade. Johnson is the most shambolic leader the UK has produced, but he is not daft and pursued self-interest aided by a complete lack of opposition and the gullibility of the UK voter. No good for the country of course, you would not want brexit, pandemic and recession together but the consequences will not be felt by the tories, that is what the public are for. Do stop whining Steeleye. You've even started your anti British, anti Tory crap on 'Comrades' now. Despite the name, you will get little sympathy there either. Your fellow Communist there is a Brexiter.
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Hrolf The Ganger

28 Dec 20 12.17pm

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Originally posted by steeleye20

A trade deal that creates trade barriers, rather than removes them, cannot create prosperity.

It is pure Johnson-balls.

The 'chumocracy' is so disdainful of democracy public they can only be bothered to debate an important treaty for one day.

The whole thing is a political power-grab by the tory right, the 'rentier' society, it is not about trade.

Johnson is the most shambolic leader the UK has produced, but he is not daft and pursued self-interest
aided by a complete lack of opposition and the gullibility of the UK voter.

No good for the country of course, you would not want brexit, pandemic and recession together but the consequences will not be felt by the tories, that is what the public are for.

Do stop whining Steeleye.

You've even started your anti British, anti Tory crap on 'Comrades' now.
Despite the name, you will get little sympathy there either. Your fellow Communist there is a Brexiter.

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Hrolf The Ganger 28 Dec 20 12.28pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I agree. We all want our country to prosper and will be doing all we can to ensure it does, whatever situation we are in. You will never though get the hardline anti-EU mob to accept they were wrong. They would rather England be divorced from Scotland, Wales and NI and become a third world country just so long as it is "our" third world country. The irony in your statement is clear. All we have heard from Remoaners is the disaster about to ensue, but what we will actually get is a continuous whine of spin from that side blaming everything and anything on Brexit. Understand. You might be happy to slowly surrender power and self determination to a remote foreign government for the illusion of better trade, but many are not. You need to accept that and move on. This war has gone on long enough and continued resistance will not serve this country at all.
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Hrolf The Ganger

28 Dec 20 12.28pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I agree. We all want our country to prosper and will be doing all we can to ensure it does, whatever situation we are in.

You will never though get the hardline anti-EU mob to accept they were wrong. They would rather England be divorced from Scotland, Wales and NI and become a third world country just so long as it is "our" third world country.

The irony in your statement is clear. All we have heard from Remoaners is the disaster about to ensue, but what we will actually get is a continuous whine of spin from that side blaming everything and anything on Brexit.

Understand. You might be happy to slowly surrender power and self determination to a remote foreign government for the illusion of better trade, but many are not. You need to accept that and move on. This war has gone on long enough and continued resistance will not serve this country at all.

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Stirlingsays 28 Dec 20 12.29pm
Originally posted by The Dolphin Stirling - how can you say that few voted to leave on economic grounds? Sure there were some jingoistic votes and some who voted on purely immigration grounds but an awful lot of people I know voted for the same reasons as I did. The EU - let's say Germany and France - wants total control of its member states and to that end is prepared to ruin economies to ensure that those countries can never leave. To that end the strong economies will have to provide the financial support and we are one of those. The EU is in despair and fear that we have left and while it will take a few years we will prosper outside the EU. It is my honest belief that the EU will cease to exist in anything like it's current form within 20 years. Matov- great post!!!! I say it because I think it's the truth. I think you have the summary upside down. Back in 2016 most would have voted leave on the immigration issue with control the secondary principle. Sure, I'd agree with you that control and independence from what is clearly a 'superstate' model was a background factor for people aware of it who cared. But the reality is that the majority of people aren't into in-depth knowledge of the EU. What matters to them is what they see happening around them in their daily lives.....and given a binary choice we saw the result. Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Dec 2020 12.30pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

28 Dec 20 12.29pm

Originally posted by The Dolphin

Stirling - how can you say that few voted to leave on economic grounds?
Sure there were some jingoistic votes and some who voted on purely immigration grounds but an awful lot of people I know voted for the same reasons as I did.
The EU - let's say Germany and France - wants total control of its member states and to that end is prepared to ruin economies to ensure that those countries can never leave.
To that end the strong economies will have to provide the financial support and we are one of those.
The EU is in despair and fear that we have left and while it will take a few years we will prosper outside the EU.
It is my honest belief that the EU will cease to exist in anything like it's current form within 20 years.
Matov- great post!!!!

I say it because I think it's the truth.

I think you have the summary upside down. Back in 2016 most would have voted leave on the immigration issue with control the secondary principle.

Sure, I'd agree with you that control and independence from what is clearly a 'superstate' model was a background factor for people aware of it who cared.

But the reality is that the majority of people aren't into in-depth knowledge of the EU. What matters to them is what they see happening around them in their daily lives.....and given a binary choice we saw the result.

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Dec 2020 12.30pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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steeleye20 Croydon 28 Dec 20 12.29pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Do stop whining Steeleye. You've even started your anti British, anti Tory crap on 'Comrades' now. Despite the name, you will get little sympathy there either. Your fellow Communist there is a Brexiter. A minority of one suits me.
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steeleye20

Croydon 28 Dec 20 12.29pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Do stop whining Steeleye.

You've even started your anti British, anti Tory crap on 'Comrades' now.
Despite the name, you will get little sympathy there either. Your fellow Communist there is a Brexiter.

A minority of one suits me.

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Hrolf The Ganger 28 Dec 20 12.57pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 A minority of one suits me. It is good to be reminded how bonkers some can be, just in case we get complacent.
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Hrolf The Ganger

28 Dec 20 12.57pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

A minority of one suits me.

It is good to be reminded how bonkers some can be, just in case we get complacent.

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cryrst The garden of England 28 Dec 20 1.01pm
Originally posted by kevlee just a few reported examples below... [Link] [Link] [Link] [Link] [Link] [Link] [Link] Go figure where the links are from! Fabulous let's put covid help out to tender and do a report and a meeting about a meeting whilst people are dying. Is there any thing that would actually constitute a negative effect on us as a population. Apart from money which a load of people have been given way above any that boris's 'mates' have had. Maybe the fraud involved with many claims from poor 'normal' self employed workers!
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cryrst

The garden of England 28 Dec 20 1.01pm

Originally posted by kevlee

just a few reported examples below...
[Link]

[Link]

Go figure where the links are from!
Fabulous let's put covid help out to tender and do a report and a meeting about a meeting whilst people are dying. Is there any thing that would actually constitute a negative effect on us as a population.
Apart from money which a load of people have been given way above any that boris's 'mates' have had.
Maybe the fraud involved with many claims from poor 'normal' self employed workers!

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 28 Dec 20 1.12pm
Originally posted by cryrst The eu created this by being stubborn with cameron. I bet they wish they had moved a little now! Our relationship is in tact. Maybe some extra red tape but the EU have rolls of it which they wernt afraid to use. Now it's a smaller roll for us. It was Cameron's initial misjudgement that started the whole thing. He allowed the concern over the future integrity of the Tory party in the face of the UKIP threat to outweigh the interests of the country. The EU tried to help a little so they cannot be held responsible. Whether they now wish they had offered more is a moot point. The mess started with Cameron and his promise to "respect" the result when it ought to have been made clear that any referendum in the UK is consultative and not binding. Decision making being in the hands of Parliament a no vote would then have given him the opportunity to negotiate better terms which Parliament could then have approved and the issue then fought out at the next GE. If UKIP then won a majority, game over. This was 100% party politics at it's worst and we will all suffer as a consequence. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 28 Dec 20 1.12pm

Originally posted by cryrst

The eu created this by being stubborn with cameron.
I bet they wish they had moved a little now!
Our relationship is in tact. Maybe some extra red tape but the EU have rolls of it which they wernt afraid to use. Now it's a smaller roll for us.

It was Cameron's initial misjudgement that started the whole thing. He allowed the concern over the future integrity of the Tory party in the face of the UKIP threat to outweigh the interests of the country. The EU tried to help a little so they cannot be held responsible. Whether they now wish they had offered more is a moot point. The mess started with Cameron and his promise to "respect" the result when it ought to have been made clear that any referendum in the UK is consultative and not binding. Decision making being in the hands of Parliament a no vote would then have given him the opportunity to negotiate better terms which Parliament could then have approved and the issue then fought out at the next GE. If UKIP then won a majority, game over. This was 100% party politics at it's worst and we will all suffer as a consequence.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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