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2020 US Presidential Election. (LOCKED)
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 Teddy Eagle  01 Dec 20 11.12pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
The framework is all there. It's the interpretation and then the application of that framework, as always, that's the problem. Seems like a big job but have at it.
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BlueJay  UK 02 Dec 20 1.44am |
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Georgia official: Trump inciting election violence - [Link] "A US state of Georgia election official has said President Donald Trump will bear responsibility for any violence that results from unsubstantiated election fraud claims he has stoked. In a fiery statement, Gabriel Sterling, a Republican, said: "It's all gone too far! All of it! It has to stop! He said a 20-year-old contractor in Gwinnett County for Dominion Voting Systems, which has become the subject of baseless right-wing conspiracy theories, had received death threats. The worker's family was also getting harassed, Mr Sterling added. The unnamed man had been threatened with a noose and accused of treason, Mr Sterling said, after transferring a report on ballot batches to a county computer so he could read it. Mr Sterling said he himself has a police guard outside his home, while the wife of Georgia's Secretary of State, Brad Raffensperger, was "getting sexualised threats through her cell phone". "Mr President, you have not condemned these actions or this language," added Mr Sterling. "Senators, you have not condemned these actions or this language. "We need you to step up and if you're going to take a position of leadership, show some!" He added: "Death threats, physical threats, intimidation, it's too much, it's not right, they've lost the moral high ground to claim that it is." Mr Sterling also cited threats of violence against Chris Krebs, who was fired last month as head of the US Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency after he disputed Mr Trump's fraud claims. Mr Sterling condemned Trump lawyer Joe DiGenova, who said on Monday that Mr Krebs should be "taken out at dawn and shot"."
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Stirlingsays  02 Dec 20 3.50am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
The framework is all there. It's the interpretation and then the application of that framework, as always, that's the problem. A free society does not make opinions illegal. It did not make your 'Russia and Trump rigged the election' opinion illegal and similarly it doesn't make whatever the republicans want to believe illegal. Of course, we know that the Democrats would love to change the first amendment.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 02 Dec 20 3.51am |
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Were the Democrats held responsible for BLM and Antifa violence?
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| BlueJay UK 02 Dec 20 6.02am |
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I haven't said they should be, and highlighted that it's a Republican calling out this peppering of person specific death threats. There are principled people of all political stripes. It's worth pointing out that Trump just retweeted this video too, and once again only used it to attack 'massive voter fraud' rather than address in any way the disturbing and specific threats in the video, some of which came from his own lawyers. Though that should be no surprise, and he is known to have called on his supporters to engage in violence in the past. Conservative, Gabriel Sterling in the video suggests that this intentional ramping up by Trump won't end well. By his action Trump does very little to dispel that. Republican or Democrat, stochastic terrorism isn't much fun if you're on the receiving end of it.
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| Stirlingsays 02 Dec 20 6.29am |
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Originally posted by BlueJay
I haven't said they should be, and highlighted that it's a Republican calling out this peppering of person specific death threats. There are principled people of all political stripes. It's worth pointing out that Trump just retweeted this video too, and once again only used it to attack 'massive voter fraud' rather than address in any way the disturbing and specific threats in the video, some of which came from his own lawyers. Though that should be no surprise, and he is known to have called on his supporters to engage in violence in the past. Conservative, Gabriel Sterling in the video suggests that this intentional ramping up by Trump won't end well. By his action Trump does very little to dispel that. Republican or Democrat, stochastic terrorism isn't much fun if you're on the receiving end of it. If there are death threats, and threats in general that is obviously unacceptable.....Yet death threats from Democratic supporters are legion. I myself have suffered from leftist activist actions. As far as I'm concerned, while I agree with you that there has been uncareful language, I also regard it as treating in kind. Democrats based their entire positioning upon Trump being illegitimate and I heard little from Democratic figures over the last four years that was in anyway conciliatory....indeed similar resistance to everything was said both officially and far worst by its supporters.....So I regard your suddenly copious posting as being a little late to the party. As for republicans, there is and will be an internal battle in progress and while you obviously favour compliance from them I'll be far less judgemental.....considering the last four years. Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Dec 2020 7.20am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 02 Dec 20 8.02am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
A free society does not make opinions illegal. It did not make your 'Russia and Trump rigged the election' opinion illegal and similarly it doesn't make whatever the republicans want to believe illegal. Of course, we know that the Democrats would love to change the first amendment. Nor will a free society make opinions illegal. A free society already determines how, when and where those opinions can be expressed. A free society has two elements. Freedom and society. Both are essential. Take away the society and you don't have freedom, you have anarchy. A truly free society can only exist when that society determines the how, when and where. Freedom under the law. Holding any opinion is fine. Expressing it on social media in a way which society believes to be unacceptable is not. Holding social media companies to account for ensuring that society's values are upheld is part of the duty of government. Respecting the fact that social media companies are commercial businesses, who respond to commercial pressures, means that they must also have the freedom to make their own determinations on what content they permit, whilst staying within the law. They can therefore restrict content if to allow it would damage them commercially. Social media companies are not mouthpieces of government or of anyone else.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 02 Dec 20 8.16am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Were the Democrats held responsible for BLM and Antifa violence? No, because they weren't. Just because Trump and his bootlicking inner circle said they were doesn't mean they were. they lie. We all know they lie. Over the past 4 years the Democrats have behaved with exemplary restraint and dignity in the face of constant abuse, lies and goading. Their responses have been exasperation blended with patience. The attempts to tarnish them by suggesting they have behaved in the same way as Trump is now is risible. It isn't true.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Stirlingsays 02 Dec 20 8.23am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
No, because they weren't. Just because Trump and his bootlicking inner circle said they were doesn't mean they were. they lie. We all know they lie. Over the past 4 years the Democrats have behaved with exemplary restraint and dignity in the face of constant abuse, lies and goading. Their responses have been exasperation blended with patience. The attempts to tarnish them by suggesting they have behaved in the same way as Trump is now is risible. It isn't true. I view your post as so blinkered as to be parody.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 02 Dec 20 8.25am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Nor will a free society make opinions illegal. A free society already determines how, when and where those opinions can be expressed. A free society has two elements. Freedom and society. Both are essential. Take away the society and you don't have freedom, you have anarchy. A truly free society can only exist when that society determines the how, when and where. Freedom under the law. Holding any opinion is fine. Expressing it on social media in a way which society believes to be unacceptable is not. Holding social media companies to account for ensuring that society's values are upheld is part of the duty of government. Respecting the fact that social media companies are commercial businesses, who respond to commercial pressures, means that they must also have the freedom to make their own determinations on what content they permit, whilst staying within the law. They can therefore restrict content if to allow it would damage them commercially. Social media companies are not mouthpieces of government or of anyone else. That is either a statement made of wilful ignorance or a deliberate lie.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 02 Dec 20 8.31am |
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No one needs to protect an inoffensive opinion. Neither Stalin nor Hitler cared about inoffensive opinions. Until Blair this country protected free speech outside of physical threats and allowing for libel. America's first amendment protected both left and right and social media companies have been abusing its spirit since they were provided undeserved protections from being a publisher. If you censor opinions you are an editor and hence a publisher. When companies act as political monopolies that matters. One of Trump's chief failings was allowing big tech to be political while allowing them protection under the law......He will have to answer for this. Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Dec 2020 11.03am)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| matthau South Croydon 02 Dec 20 8.53am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I view your post as so blinkered as to be parody. 100%. Wibitch has his head in the sand
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