I have stayed away from this thread for quite a while as I really had no interest in reading the sort of things likely to be posted here.

Now it appears we are stumbling towards the expected result, by me anyway, of leaving on WTO terms I wonder just where this is going to lead to.

Obviously, there are going to be short-term implications, price rises, shortages and a mess of paperwork. It's though the longer term I am thinking about.

Hopefully we can immediately start to negotiate a proper trade deal next year, just as we seek them elsewhere.

However, in my view, we are in a very weak position going forward. No doubt others will disagree.

If I am right and our economy, already impacted by the after-effects of the pandemic, is as severely hampered by Brexit as I expect it to be then how long before Scotland starts to demand independence and Northern Ireland starts to think about a United Ireland?

What would it take for the "Brexit at all costs" enthusiasts to start to question their stance? How big a decline in the UK economy and the break up of the UK is it worth to be "taking back control"? Put some numbers on it?

More importantly how long would it be before the people as a whole, and not the die-hards, started to rue their decision and to press for a return?

Going back in would be much easier than coming out and could be done in a matter of months, after a GE. The next being in 4 years maximum, by which time the pain will be bad and the grass in Europe looking much greener than here. The USA would be encouraging it.

Don't rule it out! It's far from an impossible scenario. Corbyn has gone. The pandemic would be over. The red wall which crumbled and turned blue is being reversed again. Flirting with the enemy might be exciting for a while but when they keep on hurting you, you tend to realise they are still the enemy.

I have stayed away from this thread for quite a while as I really had no interest in reading the sort of things likely to be posted here.

Now it appears we are stumbling towards the expected result, by me anyway, of leaving on WTO terms I wonder just where this is going to lead to.

Obviously, there are going to be short-term implications, price rises, shortages and a mess of paperwork. It's though the longer term I am thinking about.

Hopefully we can immediately start to negotiate a proper trade deal next year, just as we seek them elsewhere.

However, in my view, we are in a very weak position going forward. No doubt others will disagree.

If I am right and our economy, already impacted by the after-effects of the pandemic, is as severely hampered by Brexit as I expect it to be then how long before Scotland starts to demand independence and Northern Ireland starts to think about a United Ireland?

What would it take for the "Brexit at all costs" enthusiasts to start to question their stance? How big a decline in the UK economy and the break up of the UK is it worth to be "taking back control"? Put some numbers on it?

More importantly how long would it be before the people as a whole, and not the die-hards, started to rue their decision and to press for a return?

Going back in would be much easier than coming out and could be done in a matter of months, after a GE. The next being in 4 years maximum, by which time the pain will be bad and the grass in Europe looking much greener than here. The USA would be encouraging it.

Don't rule it out! It's far from an impossible scenario. Corbyn has gone. The pandemic would be over. The red wall which crumbled and turned blue is being reversed again. Flirting with the enemy might be exciting for a while but when they keep on hurting you, you tend to realise they are still the enemy.

As for the EU we probably wont get a deal now but that is their decision there is nothing stopping them changing their mind later. Some of the EU countries are playing domestic politics and a couple of years under WTO might not hurt the politicians but I suspect that their farmers and fishermen will have something to say about that, not to mention the car manufacturers.

Stand your ground Boris.

Of course I would like a deal and not having one will hurt us but it will also hurt them. My guess is that the EU are calculating that we will fold Boris should stand firm. At some point next year Merkel is gone, Macron may get a pasting in the elections and the other EU countries may tell France that they don't give a stuff about French fishermen.

Totally predictable replies from the usual suspects so far who have all got their heads so deep in the sand that they cannot even see the end of their nose. With one exception. Respect to Matov.

The trade deals we are doing with others are broadly on the same terms as we already have as EU members. So we negotiate something we already had and then claim a success?

The idea that somehow the next few years are going to bring us opportunities is preposterous. It's going to bring us nothing but pain. The pandemic ensures that. Brexit is likely to significantly add to that pain. Growing frustration from Scotland, in particular, will add noise and pressure for their independence and the break up of the UK, with us then having an EU member with a land border. Business would flow north.

Whilst some of you might be prepared to put up with that pain because we have "got back control" what I asked was what your limit would be? How much before you change your mind? The tone of the replies suggests you would accept total ruin and still be happy.

Whether the brass nosed hardliners would cling to their straws as the UK sinks to the bottom is not actually the issue. It is how much would the majority of the people accept? You know those nasty people out there that were tricked into just voting it over the line in the first place, many of whom already have regrets. How much will they take before they demand change and when they do how on earth will the Tories respond?

We all know that people often wrongly attribute cause and effect and that politicians are adept at using that to advance their own agendas. It was done by the Brexiteers and it will be done again with the impact of the pandemic, a lot of which will be seen as a consequence of Brexit.

So dismiss these thoughts if it makes you feel better. Describe people like me as traitors if that helps. The problems and these possibilities might be beyond thinking about for you but they are real and they won't just be wished away. Nor, believe me, are the many millions like me who disagreed with the whole idea in the first place.

Many "remainers" have been taking a pause for breath, to re-energise and reorganise during this period. As the next years pass expect to see them become much more active. The wind will be in their sails, with the tide of history firmly flowing their way. You will be on the back foot trying to scrape the mould off the jam you promised tomorrow.

I always said it was a long haul. Nothing has changed. The chickens are all on their way home. Home being within the EU where we now belong.