I don't begrudge Scottish seats in parliament what I begrudge is Scottish nationalists holding power and having say over England by pact or coalition.....Which by far is the largest part of the union.

The Scottish moan about the reverse but here again it has to be said, they are a population of five/six million....It isn't really comparable in fairness.

Like I say, If this happened I would blame the Scottish voters more than anyone for essentially voting for a union break-away party in massive numbers.....And Labour but only if they took the deal....In my view it's probably better...If more chaotic to go with minority government, with eventually a re-vote.

When you compare the effect of voting for Ukip with the affect of voting for break-away nationalist upon the English population you are talking about two very different concepts Legal.

Ukip aren't anti the UK union....Ukip are a party that campaigns for a referendum on the EU. The English....And I'll repeat it. The English comprise of the vast majority of the UK and tax paid into it...The UK us broadly in favour of a referendum anyway......So your musings on the impact of Ukip having some minor say makes no sense.....Outside of the pro EU left who would hate it of course.

As for what outcome I'd like.....To be honest I'm voting Ukip because of my dislike of the framing of the freedom of movement laws and for how the EU is structured generally.....Also out of irritation of how the left and the Tories have treated Ukip generally.

I want a re-alignment of our relationship with the EU.....But outside of that I don't think there is an outcome that I'm too happy with anyway.

It's going to be a very hard five years whatever happens.

I can't stand Cameron.
I quite like somethings about Miliband but Labour generally usually cock things up.
Ukip.....There most important policies align with mine.
Lib Dems.....I usually find I'm opposed to most of their ideas.
Greens.....I was quite impressed with that Aussie bird in the debates (though why is an Aussie standing for a UK seat? Never mind)....Still most Green policies are ridiculous when subjected to serious analysis.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

If this forum teaches you anything it's that people enjoy being pissed off and pointing the finger elsewhere. Whether they're Scottish, English or whatever. It's the way of the world. We use various mental gymnastics to comfort and convince ourselves that others are the problem. If you want an authentic life you have to look for the needles in the haystack and just find 'good people' which has nothing to do with nationality, disability, gender, sexuality, race, politics. Not people throwing their weight around or being overly political day to day. Just good people who see beyond the silly templates we place over communities and individuals.

Edited by imbored (11 Apr 2015 10.56pm)

Are you saying that not believing disability, gender, sexuality, race should define a person's worth is somehow a flawed or lesser world view?

Edited by imbored (12 Apr 2015 1.19am)

Your own family members and friends may well fall into various groups including these so it's a bad analogy. You're immediately placing these groups as 'other than', people that you have to go out and find and experience that somehow aren't part and parcel of life by default.

It very much matters. If a family member is disabled you're likely to develop an understanding of those challenges and so on. Groups aren't outside of our everyday experience, they are part of our every day life.

You said 'Ah egalitarians and their world views' as if my outlook was somehow lesser. You're free to believe that, but you love your own family because you know them, that appears to be your point. Therefore appreciating others rather than side stepping them is actually a way to acknowledge that process. We're all free to ignore that, and to varying degrees we do, but it reduces the reality of who people are and replaces it with the most convenient caricature to hand.

Edited by imbored (12 Apr 2015 2.37am)

This rings a sad bell.
Around 18months ago my best mate (also called Geoff) and his wife chose to terminate due to 'Downs'.
They're both in their 40's and for what it's worth, many would view them as the perfect couple. They already have 2 lovely healthy children, a boy of 9 and a girl of 6.
A third, as planned, came along but they saw the results of a scan.
Rather than giving him a chance, they chose to kill their third child because he wasn't 'perfect'.

We don't talk as much as we used to.

Edited by TUX (13 Apr 2015 10.25pm)