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Matov 22 Jul 20 8.49pm | |
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Originally posted by Spiderman
I am sure some on here will say you have missed the point or do not understand
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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steeleye20 Croydon 22 Jul 20 9.55pm | |
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Admit it, you miss the EU.
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Matov 22 Jul 20 10.44pm | |
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It fascinates me. And I always said that if it truly offered a Pan-European future then I was open to persuasion. But it has not. It is rotten to the core. I accept that I have far to much interest in the daily machinations of real politik and that the EU throws up so many interesting questions and contradictions but the UK is so far well out of it. Just the utter stupidity of the Euro is proof for me that many of the leading lights of the European 'ideal' are beyond comprehension. And it has condemend millions of Europeans to poverty, reducing countries to effective vasel states. The biggest peace time disaster ever imposed on Europe. Give me a genuine Pan-European ideal, with a glorious vision of the worlds greatest continent acting as one from the western most beachs of Ireland to the very edges of the Russian borders (and why should Russia not be included?) and I am all ears. But what we have in Brussels is ludicrous. Just the farce of how it ups sticks and moves to Strasbourg for a few days every month is the only proof you need.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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Badger11 Beckenham 23 Jul 20 8.49am | |
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Originally posted by Matov
It fascinates me. And I always said that if it truly offered a Pan-European future then I was open to persuasion. But it has not. It is rotten to the core. I accept that I have far to much interest in the daily machinations of real politik and that the EU throws up so many interesting questions and contradictions but the UK is so far well out of it. Just the utter stupidity of the Euro is proof for me that many of the leading lights of the European 'ideal' are beyond comprehension. And it has condemend millions of Europeans to poverty, reducing countries to effective vasel states. The biggest peace time disaster ever imposed on Europe. Give me a genuine Pan-European ideal, with a glorious vision of the worlds greatest continent acting as one from the western most beachs of Ireland to the very edges of the Russian borders (and why should Russia not be included?) and I am all ears. But what we have in Brussels is ludicrous. Just the farce of how it ups sticks and moves to Strasbourg for a few days every month is the only proof you need. I agree it is the politics of the EU that has so offended me. I am not against a free trade block as soon as they started the move to a political state it became a problem. Democracy was the last thing on their mind. The other big fault with the EU is that it is a one size fits all solution. I would have gone with 2 or 3 1. Inner group economically sound pooling their sovereignty and fiscal resources (euro) e.g. France and Germany. This is the EU superstate. 2. Free Trade group economically sound but unwilling to be part of EU superstate but cherry picking EU legislation they they agree with. This would be the UK and perhaps Holland. 3. Outer group of countries whose economies are not yet fully developed they have access to the free market and CAP but not the euro so they cannot economically destabilise group 1. Once they have sorted their lives out they can move to group 1 or 2.
One more point |
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steeleye20 Croydon 23 Jul 20 10.30am | |
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Originally posted by Badger11
I agree it is the politics of the EU that has so offended me. I am not against a free trade block as soon as they started the move to a political state it became a problem. Democracy was the last thing on their mind. The other big fault with the EU is that it is a one size fits all solution. I would have gone with 2 or 3 1. Inner group economically sound pooling their sovereignty and fiscal resources (euro) e.g. France and Germany. This is the EU superstate. 2. Free Trade group economically sound but unwilling to be part of EU superstate but cherry picking EU legislation they they agree with. This would be the UK and perhaps Holland. 3. Outer group of countries whose economies are not yet fully developed they have access to the free market and CAP but not the euro so they cannot economically destabilise group 1. Once they have sorted their lives out they can move to group 1 or 2. There is no point in EU bashing now. The process of blaming Brussels for all our faults, started by Mrs Thatcher, 'I must have a scapegoat' has run its course, it was wildly successful. Really we should envy EU democracy as this package is subject to the EU parliament and further negotiations with member states. The current British system, where an unelected civil servant and his mates seem to run the government is what I feared with the return of 'sovereignty'.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 23 Jul 20 6.50pm | |
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Originally posted by Spiderman
So do you think the report on grooming gangs should be published in full? I did, because comparing chalk and cheese never produces anything other than hot air. Brexit itself won't be cancelled. That we will join a reformed EU after having undergone our own reforms will, in my opinion, in the fullness of time. This report is the most damning I have ever seen into how corrupt and unrepresentative our present system is and will be, I suspect, a watershed moment in our political life. It may well take a few other earthquake events to actually shake the apathy out but this is will when it be seen to have all started. To repeat what I wrote:- "This report is a turning point on the long road to see this stupidity reversed and, indeed, in the need to see our democratic system overhauled and modernised to ensure it becomes truly representative." Anything that has undermined our democracy like this cannot and must not be tolerated. That sentiment ought to be shared by everyone, whatever their personal political viewpoint.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Stirlingsays 23 Jul 20 7.23pm | |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
There is no point in EU bashing now. The process of blaming Brussels for all our faults, started by Mrs Thatcher, 'I must have a scapegoat' has run its course, it was wildly successful. Really we should envy EU democracy as this package is subject to the EU parliament and further negotiations with member states. The current British system, where an unelected civil servant and his mates seem to run the government is what I feared with the return of 'sovereignty'.
If there is no point in EU bashing then conversely, I would have thought, there is no point in EU praising.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Hrolf The Ganger 23 Jul 20 7.26pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I did, because comparing chalk and cheese never produces anything other than hot air. Brexit itself won't be cancelled. That we will join a reformed EU after having undergone our own reforms will, in my opinion, in the fullness of time. This report is the most damning I have ever seen into how corrupt and unrepresentative our present system is and will be, I suspect, a watershed moment in our political life. It may well take a few other earthquake events to actually shake the apathy out but this is will when it be seen to have all started. To repeat what I wrote:- "This report is a turning point on the long road to see this stupidity reversed and, indeed, in the need to see our democratic system overhauled and modernised to ensure it becomes truly representative." Anything that has undermined our democracy like this cannot and must not be tolerated. That sentiment ought to be shared by everyone, whatever their personal political viewpoint.
We had a referendum, you lost. You can't accept that Some people can never be wrong, but only in their own minds.
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Hrolf The Ganger 23 Jul 20 7.32pm | |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
There is no point in EU bashing now. The process of blaming Brussels for all our faults, started by Mrs Thatcher, 'I must have a scapegoat' has run its course, it was wildly successful. Really we should envy EU democracy as this package is subject to the EU parliament and further negotiations with member states. The current British system, where an unelected civil servant and his mates seem to run the government is what I feared with the return of 'sovereignty'.
So the PM can't have advisers now? What a lot of old twaddle.
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cryrst The garden of England 23 Jul 20 7.53pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I did, because comparing chalk and cheese never produces anything other than hot air. Brexit itself won't be cancelled. That we will join a reformed EU after having undergone our own reforms will, in my opinion, in the fullness of time. This report is the most damning I have ever seen into how corrupt and unrepresentative our present system is and will be, I suspect, a watershed moment in our political life. It may well take a few other earthquake events to actually shake the apathy out but this is will when it be seen to have all started. To repeat what I wrote:- "This report is a turning point on the long road to see this stupidity reversed and, indeed, in the need to see our democratic system overhauled and modernised to ensure it becomes truly representative." Anything that has undermined our democracy like this cannot and must not be tolerated. That sentiment ought to be shared by everyone, whatever their personal political viewpoint. It has been stated by brexiteers that rejoining the eu wasnt off the table at all. Under our terms.
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steeleye20 Croydon 23 Jul 20 8.00pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I did, because comparing chalk and cheese never produces anything other than hot air. Brexit itself won't be cancelled. That we will join a reformed EU after having undergone our own reforms will, in my opinion, in the fullness of time. This report is the most damning I have ever seen into how corrupt and unrepresentative our present system is and will be, I suspect, a watershed moment in our political life. It may well take a few other earthquake events to actually shake the apathy out but this is will when it be seen to have all started. To repeat what I wrote:- "This report is a turning point on the long road to see this stupidity reversed and, indeed, in the need to see our democratic system overhauled and modernised to ensure it becomes truly representative." Anything that has undermined our democracy like this cannot and must not be tolerated. That sentiment ought to be shared by everyone, whatever their personal political viewpoint. You may be touching a nerve that the public don't really want to leave but it is too late. And it's difficult to see why the EU would want us back in. They can move on, as we have seen with the virus package, without the perpetual UK block on progress.
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Stirlingsays 23 Jul 20 8.27pm | |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
You may be touching a nerve that the public don't really want to leave but it is too late. And it's difficult to see why the EU would want us back in. They can move on, as we have seen with the virus package, without the perpetual UK block on progress.
Where do you think that money is coming from? It isn't even enough money anyway. You seem to be under the impression that the EU are a cohesive happy family. Yet the Italian debt crises will soon arise and it's in the balance whether it'll still be in the EU in five years.....Spain as well.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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