Exactly. W12 is full of it.

All nonsense. The Russians are the bad guys here. They have invaded another country without provocation while spewing out nonsense 'justifications' in a manner very similar to Hitler when he started invading his neighbours. All the apologists for the fascist Putin make me sick - why don't you just come out and say that you want Putin to win.

Edited by georgenorman (27 May 2022 5.48pm)

In the West you're able to make statements like this. Try being in Putin's Russia and having a daily mantra against him and his leadership and see where that gets you...

That you've reached a point where you want Putin to 'win' is unfortunate. Anyone in business or politics there who doesn't tow the line winds up dead or poisoned, and speaking out against the war - or acknowledging it even is a war - has led to countless arrests. Most likely you just like his politics and you don't much care what it takes or who is snuffed out to further propogate it. Navalny is a Russian civizen with a view on his nation too (just as you have a view on yours). A brave one at that. Has and is Putin acting in his best interests? Is poisoning and imprisoning someone for their opinion reasonable if it furthers politics you agree with? Careful what you wish you.

Edited by BlueJay (27 May 2022 9.31pm)

I didn't say Putin is the anti christ. I offered an accurate portrayal of his conduct and leadership, to contrast your love-in - you seem not to care who he orders dead or poisoned on account that you like his leadership style and politics. He silences people you want silencing.

I certainly strongly disagreed with the Iraq war (from day one) and Guantanamo. You were commenting on Putin's treatment of Russian citizens. I stated how he actually treats Russian citizens, in Russia, who oppose him. His treatment of Navalny for instance, which is horrific. This nation doesn't have to be perfect to point out that Russia is clearly steps beyond it in the wrong direction.

As for Brexit, I voted for it... but do seem to recall that you proudly cut off many of your friends who were against the result or didn't want to accept it. Again fine then, so if democracy truly matters you to, then it would be nice if you started acting like it rather than solely demonising your own nation to excuse another when it's the focus. I've been very critical of erosion of civil liberties here. That doesn't mean I can't and shouldn't highlight a country with a markedly worse, ongoing record of treating its citizens and neighbours.

Edited by BlueJay (27 May 2022 11.14pm)

To note how people's concerns and attention are manipulated look at the lack of government/media concern and focus on the detainment of Britons Shaun Pinner and Andrew Hill in Russia (apparently fighting for the Ukrainians) compared to the Iranian women with a passport we spent tens of millions on.

They may face the death penalty.

While I disagree with some initial irresponsible government comments that seemed to frankly encourage British civilians to involve themselves if we are going to spend millions taking back citizens from opponent states here are two right there.

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 May 2022 12.37am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

I have no wish to be controversial here but I do know a little bit about this stuff. The Iranian Woman was absolutely prime MI6 recruitment material. Had a tangible reason to regularly visit, was absolutely deniable and seemingly intelligent. The idiot Johnson probably engaged mouth before brain and got all muddled up, because he’s an idiot. I suspect that there are a lot of dual UK/Iranian Citizens that don’t get arrested when they go back and forth to Tehran. My barber being one.

On the UK civilians being encouraged to fight - I find myself praying that, every time I see Liz Truss, she will not speak. She’s trying to be a very poor imitation of Thatcher, in my humble opinion.