BBC (again)

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BBC (again)

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PalazioVecchio south pole 20 Apr 23 2.44pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Cleopatra was Greek. No one should be surprised at the dim witted film companies allowing Smith to abuse history, It's the norm and has been for a while. More and more 'blackwashed' history will become the history people are taught in school as White people become a smaller and smaller minority on Planet Earth. The vikings trafficked huge number of British & irish kids. Kids off to the slave markets of Byzantium & Spain. Funny enough, I have not heard the BBC give the story much airtime. Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford
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PalazioVecchio

south pole 20 Apr 23 2.44pm

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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Cleopatra was Greek.

No one should be surprised at the dim witted film companies allowing Smith to abuse history, It's the norm and has been for a while.

More and more 'blackwashed' history will become the history people are taught in school as White people become a smaller and smaller minority on Planet Earth.

The vikings trafficked huge number of British & irish kids. Kids off to the slave markets of Byzantium & Spain. Funny enough, I have not heard the BBC give the story much airtime.

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 20 Apr 23 2.48pm
Originally posted by Badger11 The Ptolemy's all intermarried within their own Macedonian tribe annoyingly we know who Cleopatra's family and grandparents all except her mother, all Macedonian. It is highly unlikely her mother was black or even Egyptian but it cannot be proved either way. The Romans hated her because it meant civil war plenty of Roman writers at the time called her a whore and the rest. They did not refer to her as black which if she was they would have. In Roman society people who had dark skin were slaves and the lower classes because of course they worked outside. pink and white skin was the ultimate prize because it meant you had some poor sod do all the work for you. If Cleopatra was black it is surprising that the Romans did not refer to this as it would have been a great insult in their eyes. So whilst there is no concrete evidence to support her being entirely Greek the only evidence she was black is the absence of her mother's name and lineage. It's a nice story for those that like to believe in black achievement. If you think about her bathing in milk, then presumably that was to do with being as white as possible. I'm presuming it was relatively fashionable and a sign of wealth and power, to be as white as possible in Egypt. Good luck finding the real research these days however. It's just common sense but no doubt no one's noticed. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 20 Apr 23 2.48pm

Originally posted by Badger11

The Ptolemy's all intermarried within their own Macedonian tribe annoyingly we know who Cleopatra's family and grandparents all except her mother, all Macedonian. It is highly unlikely her mother was black or even Egyptian but it cannot be proved either way.

The Romans hated her because it meant civil war plenty of Roman writers at the time called her a whore and the rest. They did not refer to her as black which if she was they would have.

In Roman society people who had dark skin were slaves and the lower classes because of course they worked outside. pink and white skin was the ultimate prize because it meant you had some poor sod do all the work for you.

If Cleopatra was black it is surprising that the Romans did not refer to this as it would have been a great insult in their eyes.

So whilst there is no concrete evidence to support her being entirely Greek the only evidence she was black is the absence of her mother's name and lineage.

It's a nice story for those that like to believe in black achievement.

If you think about her bathing in milk, then presumably that was to do with being as white as possible. I'm presuming it was relatively fashionable and a sign of wealth and power, to be as white as possible in Egypt. Good luck finding the real research these days however. It's just common sense but no doubt no one's noticed.

Red and Blue Army!

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Badger11 Beckenham 20 Apr 23 10.07pm
Why am I not surprised [Link] One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 20 Apr 23 10.07pm

Why am I not surprised

[Link]

One more point

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footythoughts Beckenham 21 Apr 23 4.47am
Originally posted by Badger11 The Ptolemy's all intermarried within their own Macedonian tribe annoyingly we know who Cleopatra's family and grandparents all except her mother, all Macedonian. It is highly unlikely her mother was black or even Egyptian but it cannot be proved either way. The Romans hated her because it meant civil war plenty of Roman writers at the time called her a whore and the rest. They did not refer to her as black which if she was they would have. In Roman society people who had dark skin were slaves and the lower classes because of course they worked outside. pink and white skin was the ultimate prize because it meant you had some poor sod do all the work for you. If Cleopatra was black it is surprising that the Romans did not refer to this as it would have been a great insult in their eyes. So whilst there is no concrete evidence to support her being entirely Greek the only evidence she was black is the absence of her mother's name and lineage. It's a nice story for those that like to believe in black achievement. This fits with my understanding too. All I'd add is that there have up until recent past (less so present of course) been countless examples of white actors playing non white historical figures. Most drifted by without notice, largely on account that it meant so little to us or was deemed fine because we could relate to it. I wonder how many people angered by Cleopatra, were angry then.. I would argue that we should keep these realities in mind, but also try to stay true to what we know about historical figures rather than reboot or reframe, as publicity aside it's understandably often not well received.
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footythoughts

Beckenham 21 Apr 23 4.47am

Originally posted by Badger11

The Romans hated her because it meant civil war plenty of Roman writers at the time called her a whore and the rest. They did not refer to her as black which if she was they would have.

If Cleopatra was black it is surprising that the Romans did not refer to this as it would have been a great insult in their eyes.

So whilst there is no concrete evidence to support her being entirely Greek the only evidence she was black is the absence of her mother's name and lineage.

It's a nice story for those that like to believe in black achievement.

This fits with my understanding too. All I'd add is that there have up until recent past (less so present of course) been countless examples of white actors playing non white historical figures. Most drifted by without notice, largely on account that it meant so little to us or was deemed fine because we could relate to it. I wonder how many people angered by Cleopatra, were angry then.. I would argue that we should keep these realities in mind, but also try to stay true to what we know about historical figures rather than reboot or reframe, as publicity aside it's understandably often not well received.

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Badger11 Beckenham 21 Apr 23 8.07am
Originally posted by footythoughts This fits with my understanding too. All I'd add is that there have up until recent past (less so present of course) been countless examples of white actors playing non white historical figures. Most drifted by without notice, largely on account that it meant so little to us or was deemed fine because we could relate to it. I wonder how many people angered by Cleopatra, were angry then.. I would argue that we should keep these realities in mind, but also try to stay true to what we know about historical figures rather than reboot or reframe, as publicity aside it's understandably often not well received. The anger this time comes from the Egyptians who see their own culture being blackwashed. I think we will see more of this in the future. It is all very well having a black woman play Ann Boleyn most of us shrug our shoulders and say what a load of rubbish. However other cultures still care about their icons and will not be happy with some reinterpretation of their history. The Egyptians are taking legal action. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 21 Apr 23 8.07am

Originally posted by footythoughts

The anger this time comes from the Egyptians who see their own culture being blackwashed.

I think we will see more of this in the future. It is all very well having a black woman play Ann Boleyn most of us shrug our shoulders and say what a load of rubbish. However other cultures still care about their icons and will not be happy with some reinterpretation of their history.

The Egyptians are taking legal action.

One more point

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YT Oxford 21 Apr 23 8.12am
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger As did we. And Micheal Jackson. Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)
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Oxford 21 Apr 23 8.12am

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

As did we.

And Micheal Jackson.

Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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YT Oxford 21 Apr 23 8.18am
Originally posted by Badger11 Why am I not surprised [Link] Talk about a face you'd never get tired of punching! Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)
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Oxford 21 Apr 23 8.18am

Originally posted by Badger11

Why am I not surprised

[Link]

Talk about a face you'd never get tired of punching!

Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 21 Apr 23 8.28am
Originally posted by YT Talk about a face you'd never get tired of punching! Is it just me or is it predominantly men who have failed in their lives to attribute anything typically, if not correctly, identifiable as 'masculine' to themselves who are often the poster boys here? "Booo, get a haricut!" - Homer J Simpson. Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!
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Nicholas91

The Democratic Republic of Kent 21 Apr 23 8.28am

Originally posted by YT

Talk about a face you'd never get tired of punching!

Is it just me or is it predominantly men who have failed in their lives to attribute anything typically, if not correctly, identifiable as 'masculine' to themselves who are often the poster boys here?

"Booo, get a haricut!" - Homer J Simpson.

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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PalazioVecchio south pole 21 Apr 23 11.28pm
Cleopatra......liz Taylor was welsh Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford
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PalazioVecchio

south pole 21 Apr 23 11.28pm

Cleopatra......liz Taylor was welsh

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

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Teddy Eagle 21 Apr 23 11.36pm
Originally posted by PalazioVecchio Cleopatra......liz Taylor was welsh She might not have been born there but she had some Welsh in her.
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Teddy Eagle

21 Apr 23 11.36pm

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

Cleopatra......liz Taylor was welsh

She might not have been born there but she had some Welsh in her.

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georgenorman 22 Apr 23 7.28am
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle She might not have been born there but she had some Welsh in her. There was always a welcome in her valleys.
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georgenorman

22 Apr 23 7.28am

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

She might not have been born there but she had some Welsh in her.

There was always a welcome in her valleys.

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becky over the moon 22 Apr 23 8.57am
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle She might not have been born there but she had some Welsh in her. Richard Burton? A stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell give some indication of expected traffic numbers
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