Legitimately answered directly to you? So unless trump says it didn’t happen then you can’t square that it didn’t? Doesn’t that work both ways though?

At some point you have to place some trust in some elements of the judicial system here. Have you read all of the legal documents, arguments, cases and so on? Have you followed up every claim, accusation and item of evidence to decide whether in your opinion it’s a genuine one or it’s a case of someone being paid $25,000 to be a ‘witness’?

No. That’s the job of the prosecution and the courts.

Maybe I’m being too logical here but at some point you just have to be rational and accept that if nothing comes of all this, then there was never any case to answer in the first place. Again, this is not some two bit claim here - if this was going on in a WIDESPREAD fashion to the tune of tens of thousands of votes, even just a few thousands of votes, it would be a sensation. Such a legitimate case would not be able to be rejected by any court. Or hidden for that matter - to orchestrate that level of deceit on such a large scale would be a) very hard to do and b) very hard to keep quiet - too many moving parts

Part of me hopes one of these somehow gets to the Supreme Court so it can be ruled on by the 6-2 republican majority, which it will, if there’s enough actual evidence... if it gets thrown out there, then will you accept it?

Obviously if more comes out later next year, great - but for now, a line has to be drawn at some point surely. A rational mind would agree with that. Otherwise it’s just a belief rather than an evidence based assumption, and that’s Jesus territory right there. I’m not saying slavishly believe everything you’re told, but sometimes, you’ve just got to make a call.

I think we can all agree that fraud happens in every election to some degree, past present and future. I don’t think anyone can realistically say ‘there was no fraud in this election’ or any election, ever.

People like Matthau will never accept any outcome other than the one Q has convinced them will happen - once you’re in the black hole of religion and a belief system, it’s harder and harder to be objective, and even harder still to occasionally admit you were wrong, or change your opinion. Why? Because it’s a religious system - and if you live your life by it, the longer it goes on the harder it is to break away from it and effectively admit you were duped, it’s embarrassing. But yeah, tip top tippy-top shape and all that jazz

Edited by SW19 CPFC (28 Nov 2020 11.52am)

Edited by SW19 CPFC (28 Nov 2020 11.52am)

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

I agree with some of this

Fraud definitely happens in every election.

But in this case we can and will be able to say fraud on the scale suggested did or didn’t happen. Otherwise what are you saying - nothing is ever resolvable? Probability is useless? Lack of evidence is as strong as Evidence? Purgatory

Agree investigating is the right, proper and fair thing to do

What do you mean ‘why they aren’t’ - pretty sure they are in all 40+ court cases, so... or, as I assume you do mean, you think they should be making more of a song and dance in the ‘MSM’ about it? Or to you directly? Not sure of that logic, just because they’re not making as much noise as the trumpians, which in fairness for most is an impossible level to reach, doesn’t mean that is evidence of wrongdoing. Not sure I follow there - if I were them I’d be doing the same thing. Fight back in the courts, be dignified, and let the empty vessels make the most noise (until proven otherwise). It’s called the normal play, not the toys out of the pram play.

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

Your cherry picking bits of what I wrote.
If I was accused of wrongdoing and knew I wasnt guilty of it I would do everything to prove the accusation wrong. Supply evidence to the contrary for enabling the accusations to be put to bed.
Show ballots and prove they are legitimate would be one way. Trump has said hes leaving office. Biden now has access to most of what he needs.

Oh I am sure that somewhere there could be one or two incidences of fraudulent behaviour to be found, but they will be equally shared between the parties. The parties themselves not being responsible but individuals. It will always be so when humans are involved.

That though is NOT the accusation is it? The suggestion is of mass fraud conducted by one party to "steal" an election and that these are not wild allegations when no evidence has actually been presented. Who is actually trying to steal an election? It seems obvious to me that is Trump!

The Dems don't need to defend themselves against something that hasn't happened. If there was evidence then it's the accusers task to reveal it and that of the election officials to rebut it.

The Dems need to prepare for government and not get dragged down to Trump's level. To do would legitimise his strategy. Which looks to me as building a slush fund of donations from his base ready to be used to defend him and his family against the tide of indictments which will sweep over them next year and to continue to have political influence via his probable new TV channel.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

I have wondered before if what is needed is a "Truth and Reconciliation Commission" of the kind established in post-apartheid SA.

It would be a sad admission of the degree of division that exists and I have my doubts whether those in the Trump camp have the capacity to even understand it's purpose and would immediately accuse it of being "communist".

Traditional Republicans might though, as I am sure would most Democrats.

If it was established by Biden and given to the Supreme Court to supervise could this work?

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (28 Nov 2020 3.03pm)

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Interesting development in Pennsylvania.

[Link]

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)