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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 11 Jan 20 10.43am
Originally posted by cryrst And again "punish a whole country" Not my view at all. It's that of everyone who really understands these things. Your pessimism is undoubtadly the worst of anyone on here or the planet. I am far from pessimistic. I fully expect us to reverse this stupidity. The only question is how and when. The ability to compromise is what makes a good leader. Johnson clearly can so let's watch him make brexit a success. Once again you are being blindly optimistic in the face of contradictory evidence. Of course Johnson could have an epiphany and decide to cancel the whole thing. So I admit I could be wrong. I am not holding my breath though. Then wissie you can eat a large slice of that lovely pie ! If things progress as I anticipate they will I rather suspect that in a few years time the pie will all be on your plates. Time alone will prove that. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 11 Jan 20 10.43am

Originally posted by cryrst

And again "punish a whole country"

Not my view at all. It's that of everyone who really understands these things.

Your pessimism is undoubtadly the worst of anyone on here or the planet.

I am far from pessimistic. I fully expect us to reverse this stupidity. The only question is how and when.

The ability to compromise is what makes a good leader.
Johnson clearly can so let's watch him make brexit a success.

Once again you are being blindly optimistic in the face of contradictory evidence. Of course Johnson could have an epiphany and decide to cancel the whole thing. So I admit I could be wrong. I am not holding my breath though.

Then wissie you can eat a large slice of that lovely pie !

If things progress as I anticipate they will I rather suspect that in a few years time the pie will all be on your plates. Time alone will prove that.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Hrolf The Ganger 11 Jan 20 10.54am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle You wish. Until Brexit is reversed, or I am no more, there will be plenty more from me. If I go, others will follow. Reason and common sense will always triumph in the end. It sometimes just takes longer than you might hope. Edited by Wisbech Eagle (10 Jan 2020 10.54pm) And you will become a distant drone that no one will even notice after a while until you fade out. I will be happy in the knowledge that we have halted the march of European federalism and power for at least the time being.
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Hrolf The Ganger

11 Jan 20 10.54am

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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

You wish. Until Brexit is reversed, or I am no more, there will be plenty more from me. If I go, others will follow. Reason and common sense will always triumph in the end. It sometimes just takes longer than you might hope.

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (10 Jan 2020 10.54pm)

And you will become a distant drone that no one will even notice after a while until you fade out.

I will be happy in the knowledge that we have halted the march of European federalism and power for at least the time being.

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georgenorman 11 Jan 20 11.09am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I was in the pub last night and mentioned this exchange to her. We had a good laugh about it. Which pub - 'The Famous Cock'?
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georgenorman

11 Jan 20 11.09am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I was in the pub last night and mentioned this exchange to her. We had a good laugh about it.

Which pub - 'The Famous Cock'?

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Matov 11 Jan 20 12.06pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle You wish. Until Brexit is reversed, or I am no more, there will be plenty more from me. If I go, others will follow. Reason and common sense will always triumph in the end. It sometimes just takes longer than you might hope. Edited by Wisbech Eagle (10 Jan 2020 10.54pm) But Brexit cannot be reversed. That is the point of what is happening now. We leave on the 31st. There is no return to the status quo. Now you can campaign for us to Rejoin but nothing will ever be the same again. And any future membership of the EU will be different to what we had before. Might sound like semantics but the reality is that your side lost. And not only lost but handed Johnson a monster majority. Until you accept that I fear there is no closure. There is no 'Remain' anymore. Thats done. Over. Bore us all senseless with the case for rejoining and that is a perfectly acceptable stance to take. You never know, you might even make some converts, especially if everything goes as tits up as you believe it will. Hell, I might even change my mind. But Brexit is happening. Will become cemented in the history books for good or bad. It cannot be stopped now. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

11 Jan 20 12.06pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

You wish. Until Brexit is reversed, or I am no more, there will be plenty more from me. If I go, others will follow. Reason and common sense will always triumph in the end. It sometimes just takes longer than you might hope.

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (10 Jan 2020 10.54pm)

But Brexit cannot be reversed. That is the point of what is happening now. We leave on the 31st. There is no return to the status quo.

Now you can campaign for us to Rejoin but nothing will ever be the same again. And any future membership of the EU will be different to what we had before. Might sound like semantics but the reality is that your side lost. And not only lost but handed Johnson a monster majority.

Until you accept that I fear there is no closure. There is no 'Remain' anymore. Thats done. Over.

Bore us all senseless with the case for rejoining and that is a perfectly acceptable stance to take. You never know, you might even make some converts, especially if everything goes as tits up as you believe it will. Hell, I might even change my mind.

But Brexit is happening. Will become cemented in the history books for good or bad. It cannot be stopped now.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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Badger11 Beckenham 11 Jan 20 12.27pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Oh that the EU now regret their miscalculation is undoubtedly true, just as Cameron regrets his. However, you don't punish a whole country because others made mistakes. You correct those mistakes. It's the jobs of the politicians to find ways to do so. Millions think that capital punishment is a good idea. Doesn't mean it is though does it? It is just me that thinks it is a mistake! It's the overwhelming opinion of all those with the experience and professional knowledge who are in a position to evaluate these things objectively and not emotionally. They aren't guessing. They are doing their jobs. Deciding our national future on the basis of emotion is not wise. Fine then let the EU make us an offer we can't refuse you never know if it's good enough I might even change my mind. The ball is firmly in their court now if they don't want us to leave they have to do something about it. I won't hold my breath though. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 11 Jan 20 12.27pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Oh that the EU now regret their miscalculation is undoubtedly true, just as Cameron regrets his.

However, you don't punish a whole country because others made mistakes. You correct those mistakes. It's the jobs of the politicians to find ways to do so.

Millions think that capital punishment is a good idea. Doesn't mean it is though does it?

It is just me that thinks it is a mistake! It's the overwhelming opinion of all those with the experience and professional knowledge who are in a position to evaluate these things objectively and not emotionally. They aren't guessing. They are doing their jobs.

Deciding our national future on the basis of emotion is not wise.

Fine then let the EU make us an offer we can't refuse you never know if it's good enough I might even change my mind. The ball is firmly in their court now if they don't want us to leave they have to do something about it. I won't hold my breath though.

One more point

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Stirlingsays 11 Jan 20 1.03pm
The miscalculation with Cameron was mainly down to Merkel with Macron being a minor influence, just as are several bad decisions within the EU....it's quite amazing that (s)he still gets a good press from many on the pro EU side....though perhaps that's partly down to ignorance on the detail. The idea of the EU as an alternative state was a dangerous if inevitable consequence of the 'mission creep' reality of organizations......Get any group of self satisfied control freaks (politicians and other assorted suspects) together and, if they get the option, they will always vote to increase their budget and power. Now the EU is both a faux state and a gravy train. It has a supporter based who are ideologically committed to it in a way that would be viewed as treasonous in many other countries and here just a generation ago. The EU itself is beyond caring about legitimacy and it will politic and manipulate and use any tactic that it deems beneficial to its own position. It is beyond serious reform....that's been demonstrated quite clearly over decades now and it's essentially fatally flawed as the commission are just too powerful. Like all overly big companies a state like the UK can be more agile and undercut them in various ways if they regard the future as an exercise in punishing us. As the site has demonstrated we have plenty of posters who would rather the UK did poorly under Brexit than did well out of a misplaced loyalty to this foreign entity. Their attitude to state being solely how well it facilitates their bank accounts and foreign travel. They have sold their loyalty to unelected bureaucrats and corporations.....and it's in stark contrast to the previous generations whose genes they carry. Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Jan 2020 1.06pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

11 Jan 20 1.03pm

The miscalculation with Cameron was mainly down to Merkel with Macron being a minor influence, just as are several bad decisions within the EU....it's quite amazing that (s)he still gets a good press from many on the pro EU side....though perhaps that's partly down to ignorance on the detail.

The idea of the EU as an alternative state was a dangerous if inevitable consequence of the 'mission creep' reality of organizations......Get any group of self satisfied control freaks (politicians and other assorted suspects) together and, if they get the option, they will always vote to increase their budget and power.

Now the EU is both a faux state and a gravy train. It has a supporter based who are ideologically committed to it in a way that would be viewed as treasonous in many other countries and here just a generation ago.

The EU itself is beyond caring about legitimacy and it will politic and manipulate and use any tactic that it deems beneficial to its own position.

It is beyond serious reform....that's been demonstrated quite clearly over decades now and it's essentially fatally flawed as the commission are just too powerful.

Like all overly big companies a state like the UK can be more agile and undercut them in various ways if they regard the future as an exercise in punishing us.

As the site has demonstrated we have plenty of posters who would rather the UK did poorly under Brexit than did well out of a misplaced loyalty to this foreign entity. Their attitude to state being solely how well it facilitates their bank accounts and foreign travel.

They have sold their loyalty to unelected bureaucrats and corporations.....and it's in stark contrast to the previous generations whose genes they carry.

Edited by Stirlingsays (11 Jan 2020 1.06pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 11 Jan 20 1.12pm
Originally posted by Matov But Brexit cannot be reversed. That is the point of what is happening now. We leave on the 31st. There is no return to the status quo. Now you can campaign for us to Rejoin but nothing will ever be the same again. And any future membership of the EU will be different to what we had before. Might sound like semantics but the reality is that your side lost. And not only lost but handed Johnson a monster majority. Until you accept that I fear there is no closure. There is no 'Remain' anymore. Thats done. Over. Bore us all senseless with the case for rejoining and that is a perfectly acceptable stance to take. You never know, you might even make some converts, especially if everything goes as tits up as you believe it will. Hell, I might even change my mind. But Brexit is happening. Will become cemented in the history books for good or bad. It cannot be stopped now. Indeed, being a remainer now is akin to still being a Cavalier after King Charles I's head rolled off the block. But hey, I suppose some people require time to adjust. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

11 Jan 20 1.12pm

Originally posted by Matov

But Brexit cannot be reversed. That is the point of what is happening now. We leave on the 31st. There is no return to the status quo.

Until you accept that I fear there is no closure. There is no 'Remain' anymore. Thats done. Over.

But Brexit is happening. Will become cemented in the history books for good or bad. It cannot be stopped now.

Indeed, being a remainer now is akin to still being a Cavalier after King Charles I's head rolled off the block.

But hey, I suppose some people require time to adjust.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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cpfc_chap koh samui 11 Jan 20 2.48pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle That kind of reasoning is exactly why we are in the mess we are in. It's naive in it's simplicity. It's like thinking you can walk away from a marriage and decide for yourself that the house, everything in it and the bank accounts are all yours. How we leave makes a huge difference to how we organise our future. Staying close to the EU by negotiating a mutually favourable new trading arrangement would produce the kind of compromise needed to satisfy everyone. We could end up with a kind of associate membership which retains those things that are good for us, whilst dropping the things that the Eurosceptics always felt uncomfortable about. Most of us accepted that reform is needed within the EU and that might be the way to achieve it. A hard Brexit, without a deal, sets us up as a competitor to the EU. They would deny us the use of their standards trademarks, withdraw cooperation on many things and generally become more aggressive in the way they treat us. For instance France would probably stop assisting us in trying to stop illegals and reverse their attitude by assisting them to come here, or at least rid themselves of the problem by not standing in their way. We would be alone, forced into the hands of Trump's USA who have no interest in helping us at all. They see us as an opportunity. What happens this year is much more important than what happens on Jan 31st. Not really as we are leaving the assets to the eu..buildings etc..Or are you saying we should have a cut of the EU assets? You think we'll be alone? but the world doesn't just consist of the EU. Try looking beyond the 3rd Reich who have been pilfering of us for god knows how many years
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cpfc_chap

koh samui 11 Jan 20 2.48pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

That kind of reasoning is exactly why we are in the mess we are in. It's naive in it's simplicity. It's like thinking you can walk away from a marriage and decide for yourself that the house, everything in it and the bank accounts are all yours.

How we leave makes a huge difference to how we organise our future. Staying close to the EU by negotiating a mutually favourable new trading arrangement would produce the kind of compromise needed to satisfy everyone. We could end up with a kind of associate membership which retains those things that are good for us, whilst dropping the things that the Eurosceptics always felt uncomfortable about. Most of us accepted that reform is needed within the EU and that might be the way to achieve it.

A hard Brexit, without a deal, sets us up as a competitor to the EU. They would deny us the use of their standards trademarks, withdraw cooperation on many things and generally become more aggressive in the way they treat us. For instance France would probably stop assisting us in trying to stop illegals and reverse their attitude by assisting them to come here, or at least rid themselves of the problem by not standing in their way. We would be alone, forced into the hands of Trump's USA who have no interest in helping us at all. They see us as an opportunity.

What happens this year is much more important than what happens on Jan 31st.

Not really as we are leaving the assets to the eu..buildings etc..Or are you saying we should have a cut of the EU assets?

You think we'll be alone? but the world doesn't just consist of the EU. Try looking beyond the 3rd Reich who have been pilfering of us for god knows how many years

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cpfc_chap koh samui 11 Jan 20 2.53pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle It's far from ideal but the views here need to be countered wherever they surface. I do use political forums, both those which take the same kind of line as me, of which there are many, and particularly in the recent past on left wing forums which are trying to ensure that the Labour Party stays on the same track as Corbyn. I have though given that up as a lost cause. The Labour Party are a fast fading star who will never again be a force in the UK. You should be on Sunderland forum or an area that wanted to leave! London wanted to stay hence Labour and lib done well! South London doesn't need you to change our minds as it'll make no difference. Wolves, boro, Newcastle would be better forums as they are leave areas.
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cpfc_chap

koh samui 11 Jan 20 2.53pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

It's far from ideal but the views here need to be countered wherever they surface. I do use political forums, both those which take the same kind of line as me, of which there are many, and particularly in the recent past on left wing forums which are trying to ensure that the Labour Party stays on the same track as Corbyn. I have though given that up as a lost cause. The Labour Party are a fast fading star who will never again be a force in the UK.

You should be on Sunderland forum or an area that wanted to leave! London wanted to stay hence Labour and lib done well! South London doesn't need you to change our minds as it'll make no difference. Wolves, boro, Newcastle would be better forums as they are leave areas.

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Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 11 Jan 20 3.06pm
Only 20 days by the way !! Pro USA & Israel
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Jimenez

SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 11 Jan 20 3.06pm

Only 20 days by the way !!

Pro USA & Israel

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Spiderman Horsham 11 Jan 20 5.26pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I was in the pub last night and mentioned this exchange to her. We had a good laugh about it. She obviously still needs your custom! Pro leave posters on here have been branded stupid and racist, don’t deny it
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Spiderman

Horsham 11 Jan 20 5.26pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I was in the pub last night and mentioned this exchange to her. We had a good laugh about it.

She obviously still needs your custom! Pro leave posters on here have been branded stupid and racist, don’t deny it

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Spiderman Horsham 11 Jan 20 5.30pm
Originally posted by Badger11 Fine then let the EU make us an offer we can't refuse you never know if it's good enough I might even change my mind. The ball is firmly in their court now if they don't want us to leave they have to do something about it. I won't hold my breath though. Precisely. If they regret being totally obnoxious and arrogant , tough s*** their chickens are coming home to roost.... and I am loving it
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Spiderman

Horsham 11 Jan 20 5.30pm

Originally posted by Badger11

Precisely. If they regret being totally obnoxious and arrogant , tough s*** their chickens are coming home to roost.... and I am loving it

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