Or it could be that some people become apolitical after much thought and consideration on the matter and decide it’s a waste of time.

No. I judge a newspaper on it's record, who owns it and why.

Many years ago I had a good friend who was the principal sub editor on the financial pages of the Express. We have lost touch and although younger than me I guess he would by now have retired.

The Express back then was a family newspaper but it lost circulation to the Mail as the Mail adopted an increasingly populist, hard right, stance on many issues. So eventually it followed it on a race to the bottom and has tried to "out Mail" the Mail.

He was good at his job and was poached by the Mail to do the same job for them, at a much higher salary. He and I were always politically aligned so he had to hold his nose when accepting the job as this was before the Express went the same way. He reasoned that as his job was to make the stories fit the pages, and ensure they were worded in the company style, but not actually write them, he could live with himself. His name never appeared on a "by" line.

The things I learned from him then taught me all I need to know about the newspaper industry. He was hired by Dacre who was the man primarily responsible for changing the Mail's stance. Dacre controlled everything. Viscount Rothermere, the owner, has a reputation for being hands off and leaving everything to his editors. From what my friend told me happens I am not so sure. Via nods and winks I think he influenced the direction quite regularly.

Like Murdoch, Jonathan Harmsworth has a view about the direction he wishes to see the UK, and the world, go and owning populist newspapers is their way to push that agenda. The readers are the sheep, to be rounded up and penned into the right voting corner. Now he truly is a member of the "elite". A non dom billionaire owning an influential newspaper!

So I am highly cynical about anything that appears in the Mail. I see it as an unreliable white collar version of the Sun, which is also popular with the blue rinse brigade in the English shires. Give me the BBC every day for objectivity.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

It is of course valid to have a preconceived prejudice against something based upon your previous experiences.

So this gave me quite a chuckle.

However, just as we judge an individual individually this also translates to information.

An article should be judged on an article's merits.

Anything else is a lack of objectivity.....similar to the remainer BBC.

Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Jan 2020 7.40am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Exactly I was a bit surprised that someone who portrays themself as a reasonable thinking person was so prejudiced. The article in question was an opinion piece not news and like all opinion pieces is subject to criticism.

However I think the writer put forward a good argument for why it was in the EU's interest to give us a good deal. After the WW2 the Americans helped Europe through the Marshall plan they didn't have to and good have left Europe to rot in it's own mess. However wiser heads prevailed and learned from the fallout of WWI where the allies punished Germany which directly lead to WW2.

I accept that the Daily Mail prints plenty of garbage but even a broken clock is right twice a day. I don't like the Guardian's politics but I would be the first to say that they produce good journalism every now and then.

One more point

There is certainly a lot in what you say.

Another way is for the EU to recognise that what it really needs is money. Our leaving plus the 7 accession countries will put a big strain on their budget. They could offer Johnson some concessions in return for cash depending on what they offered I can see that idea working.

However I suspect that the Eurocrats like Remainers just will not accept the reality of the situation that it's time to move on.

So do they want to keep us close and get access to our markets and possibly money or just p*ss us off?

Edited by Badger11 (04 Jan 2020 10.37am)

One more point

So you are arguing that the trust you place is not to be informed by prior experience. That is an interesting view point.