There is s distinct difference between what people are taught about ideologies depending upon the cultural impact in their particular society.

If you are a non Russian heritage nationalist in the Ukraine and in eastern Europe generally....even to a lower extent in the west you are likely going to be anti Russian because those are the messages drummed into people from childhood by most European and American media.

To refer to neo nazis in the Ukraine it's not hard to see how that came about. Hitler was very anti Russian because that was the source of communism, which he saw as a Jewish anti western ideology but rather than go on about that the end result is that he killed upwards towards 30 million in Russia. So while the German state killed plenty in the Ukraine and in eastern Europe generally when you throw in the incredibly bad experiences Eastern Europe had under the Soviets you have a cocktail for huge and historic anti Russian sentiment....Many families will have stories of how past family members were murdered by Stalin or how they suffered.

As one of the two core Nazi beliefs was the destruction of the Russian state you can see how that can be co-opted by national militants in the east.

As a percent I heard the numbers of Ukrainians who voted for those parties equated to seven percent.....so while it might make up a minority but significant percent of nationalists it's not reflected as Ukrainian national culture.....because unlike what many apparently think pro Russian sentiment in the Ukraine is a major reality in the country....sometimes I think people need to actually re-read that last statement because if you just listen to our media that truth isn't really reflected.

As messages of fear are so effective you can see how the Russian media can take these real aggressive sentiments expressed by a minority and expand it into an existential threat.....we have just lived through fear messaging in the UK, whatever the reasoning or purpose it's a highly effective motivator to most human beings.

Now where the truth lies in all this?....Or at least an approximation of it.....that's for those who actually care about it....life tells you that most of us are about whatever is convenient and that even comes down to non essential beliefs as well, because fitting in costs less than not.....So most just go with the majority regardless.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

I’m not sure your 7% is reflected in the armed forces. I believe they are the dominant groups in the Ukrainian military which is actually the problem. They have basically captured the institution.

Yes, it will be significantly higher in the military because the proportion of nationalists in a military are going to be higher.

That anti Russian sentiment being as high as to reflect neo Nazi levels though still keeps it a minority....You can see that in the number of military groups that don't have any connection to this.

I'd agree with you that certain media and supporters of certain perspective are quite happy to ignore what doesn't suit them and expand what does using whatever justifications they like.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

They are the same people.

I just think the Ukrainians were more honest about it....well initially, because they have now learnt that the western media don't like it.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

It is complex.

However, if your leadership's agenda is to prolong this war because they put all our chips into a cold war.....then complicated realities don't suit.

But this was a bad hand, and I think many didn't look at that hand at the start but instead went with emotion.....well, emotion doesn't feed the hungry nor pay the bills.

Come the winter a hellva lot of people are going to be reacting differently to now.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 May 2022 10.53pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

For goodness sake man, how about a photo of him with his Schutzstaffel tattoos on display?

Again Neo Nazis exists in all countries in this region, the only exception is Azov yields some influence near the black sea than your typical Nazi group that larp about in their Thor Steinar (German clothing btw) clothing thinking their edgy.

I mean you have Aleksandr Lukashenko literally pointing at a map explaining exactly what himself & Russia intends to do with Ukraine & Moldova, you have high ranking Russians saying exactly the same thing but you seem determined to die on this De-nazifying Ukraine hill.

Edited by Ouzo Dan (23 May 2022 7.55am)

Attachment: Dmitry Utkin.jpg (80.85Kb)

The mountains are calling & I must go.