As I said it’s pointless trying to have another discussion about the way democracy within the EU is achieved with anyone so determinedly prejudiced against it. I have done it at length here several times without achieving any comprehension in response.

The UK always had full control. What do you think Article 50 was there for? We delegated certain processes to the EU. Ones where a common approach and common standards made sense. In my own area of food and beverages it was much easier to deal with one set of regulations than a multitude of them. It meant recipes and packaging could be standardised. Something we haven’t tried to change since we left but now have no voice in if new regulations are contemplated. That’s really where the winds of chance will blow.

There’s a million mile gulf between that and the regimes in Germany, Italy and Russia in the 1930s.

It’s only those things that are better regulated collectively that are delegated to the EU. Things like monetary policy, foreign policy and security remained with Westminster. No Commissioner has a role there.

Overall it’s a better arrangement for the future of our country in an ever faster changing world. One in which we need to be realistic about both our place and our prospects and stop dreaming of the long lost days of Empire.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

The EU Parliament has a different function to our or any other national Parliament. It has no interest in anything decided at national level but it can propose, scrutinise and pass legislation in the areas it does. It can also dismiss the Commission after a vote of censure. So it has power, but has not yet had to use it.

Try doing any of that in NK and you would be shot.

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (07 Jan 2024 11.12pm)

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

It isn’t a national Parliament so it inevitably works differently. Only if there was a complete abandonment of individual national sovereignty could what you appear to want be any different. Even a federal system would not achieve it.

[Link]

My remarks on what I want our elected representatives to do are addressed solely to those we elected to Westminster. Not to other bodies, like the EU or indeed local authorities. Those have different functions.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

No it doesn’t. It explains the role of the parliament within the limits of the EU structure and its specific responsibilities. You want to compare it with a national parliament. It’s no more relevant than trying to compare chalk with cheese.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

They do, but not via the EU Parliament. That’s not its role. They have delegated and then the various institutions, including the Council of Ministers, carry out their tasks.

You want to mould everything to fit the UK model. It doesn’t work like that. Something that the Brexiteers were never able to comprehend. If Farage failed to, as he did, then what hope have you got? knew it was never going to be worthwhile trying to reason this out with you.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

I was talking about Farage failing to understand the purpose of the EU Parliament. He was repeatedly bleating about a lack of direct control in much the same way you are now.

If having full control over every aspect of your life is what matters most to you, then go buy an island and become a self reliant hermit. You would live without the benefits of civilisation, suffer disease and be at the mercy of chance in everything. You would probably die young. But you would be in control.

As soon as people realised that some things are more efficiently done together society was born. Society demands that each member delegates certain decisions. It requires management. Originally the strongest managed but when they were overthrown by collective power democracy was born.

Every democratic system removes individual power and delegates it. That cannot be disputed. It’s only a question of how much power and to whom.

The important thing in deciding that question is not high and mighty principles based on history but a visionary view of what will deliver the best outcomes.

We delegate many aspects of the way we do things in a modern world to other authorities because if we do, so do others and together we do things efficiently. We delegate part of our defence to NATO for instance. The EU is no different.

So long as we retain the ultimate control in the representatives we ourselves elect to Westminster it remains a democratic system.

We have left the EU but we still delegate aspects of our lives to others. Do you want us to leave NATO, the UN etc etc? Do you want us to become hermits?

Brexit has not, will not and cannot deliver a better outcome for this country than us remaining as a member. Taking back control and finding the only way we can steer the ship is onto the rocks is a pretty empty benefit.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.