I think everyone there would, as would the police very quickly.

The same applies just about anywhere!

Any transgender doing that would have no excuses and no support from other transgenders.

This isn’t about making silly circumstances like that legal. It’s about finding sensible arrangements in which everyone is comfortable.

There are numerous cases of naked men in female changing spaces and because they have identified as trans there is nothing to be done. Complainers will be likely become the target themselves for being transphobic.

This is not a silly circumstance, it is happening.

The subject is "transgender". Nothing is centred on anything other than transgender. You may wish to address your limited knowledge on your own family only, but the discussion is about uniforms for Virgin Atlantic staff, and where people they are permitted to mix with the opposite sex.

You appear to suggest that men should be able to mix with women in female safe spaces. Not trans men. Men, who have the capability to have penetative sex with other people. That is comprehensively unacceptable.

I don't know where you get that idea but it's wrong. I don't think men should ever mix with women in female safe areas. However, I classify a male to female transgender as a woman, and not as a man. When they think, dress and behave like a woman, and have no interest in relationships with other women, then they are a woman. In the wrong body perhaps, but still a woman. If the area is safe and separate cubicles available, this is the best option for all involved. Force that transgender into a male only space and there really would be a threat.

As to my view on which facilities they should use, it's rather obvious to most people. Most women would mind very much if a trans woman were to use their cubicles, whereas most men wouldn't be too worried is a trans man used their cubicle. They would feel more uncomfortable if a gay man was standing next to them at a urinal. The main difference being that men are capable of rape. The men would at no time be subjected to any more risk of rape than is already present.

I don't think the first claim is true, but if it is, it shows that more education and reassurance is needed.

Most men might not be worried, but they would be surprised and some could get very nasty. The transgender, dressed, smelling and behaving as a woman, would be extremely intimidated and vulnerable.

But allowing trans women into female public spaces exposes women to greater risks. It is undeniable that bad people will exploit this whenever they can. And one woman raped is NOT an acceptible risk of gender neutral areas for everyone.

I disagree. I think the greater risk exists if we force them into male only spaces. That bad people exist is obviously true, but excluding transgenders won't stop this possibility. If a man wants to pretend he is a woman just so he can access a female facility, then he will anyway. Genuine transgenders would be as upset as any other woman at such an occurrence.

Edited by Tim Gypsy Hill '64 (06 Oct 2022 1.12am)

Naked men would certainly get arrested. If a transgender did it they would be extremely stupid, get no support from other transgenders, and deserve to be arrested.

There has to be common sense here. Firstly, determining who is a genuine transgender and who is not, ought not be a huge problem. An ID card, issued by an appropriate clinician, could be shown when required. Secondly, inappropriate behaviour of any kind, which has the potential of disturbing others, ought never be accepted, whatever is involved. This falls into this category.

Any "activist" showing off in this way gets no sympathy from me. They are helping no-one at all.

It really does.

If there really is a need for it and independent cubicles/rooms can be provided then so be it but even then should not be enforced, any business can choose that if so. Perhaps even just 'single-use' rooms for any particular reason, such as those with anxiety, body image issues etc can use - I'd buy into that and recognise their purpose.

To constantly campaign as if this applies to a large enough section of society and one that even remotely supersedes the protection of women is beyond ludicrous. It's their choice and they have to live with it. This pernicious notion that the whims of any group which can claim 'discrimination' have to be obliged to the inconvenience, cost and detriment to the rest of society is beyond any reason whatsoever and that's at best.