Sexual Harrassment

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Sexual Harrassment

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jamiemartin721 Reading 20 Nov 17 4.40pm
Originally posted by Dave58 Now Aled Jones has been taken off air. Not surprised that the No bollock BBC have done this. Seems if you don't like someone you accuse them of some trivial s***e and they are ruined. Accused privacy and indentity should be kept out the news until proved guilty. I always expected him to turn out to be a kiddy fiddler. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 20 Nov 17 4.40pm

Originally posted by Dave58

Now Aled Jones has been taken off air. Not surprised that the No bollock BBC have done this. Seems if you don't like someone you accuse them of some trivial s***e and they are ruined. Accused privacy and indentity should be kept out the news until proved guilty.

I always expected him to turn out to be a kiddy fiddler.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 20 Nov 17 4.44pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays It's the modern version of the salem witch trials....but in modern times it's trial by media, both social and organisational. All that is needed is accusation, evidence becomes of secondary importance. As with the salem trials it will only end when those in power themselves get accused......suddenly then the importance of evidence will make a remarkable comeback. Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Nov 2017 1.46pm) Except of course with the value of having actual witches being accused. Sometimes I think the media can be too quick, and irresponsible - I'd like to see corroborating evidence to support a claim before we get the pitchforks and torches out, but then you also have a situation where its been 'protect the boys' (whether its been BBC child rapists, holy child rapists, social services and child rapists) - and low and behold, high profile celebrities, producers and actors committing sexual offences. When the law doesn't do its job, it shouldn't be too surprising that people seek justice through less palatable means. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 20 Nov 17 4.44pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

It's the modern version of the salem witch trials....but in modern times it's trial by media, both social and organisational. All that is needed is accusation, evidence becomes of secondary importance.

As with the salem trials it will only end when those in power themselves get accused......suddenly then the importance of evidence will make a remarkable comeback.
Edited by Stirlingsays (19 Nov 2017 1.46pm)

Except of course with the value of having actual witches being accused. Sometimes I think the media can be too quick, and irresponsible - I'd like to see corroborating evidence to support a claim before we get the pitchforks and torches out, but then you also have a situation where its been 'protect the boys' (whether its been BBC child rapists, holy child rapists, social services and child rapists) - and low and behold, high profile celebrities, producers and actors committing sexual offences.

When the law doesn't do its job, it shouldn't be too surprising that people seek justice through less palatable means.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Hrolf The Ganger 20 Nov 17 4.57pm
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Except of course with the value of having actual witches being accused. Sometimes I think the media can be too quick, and irresponsible - I'd like to see corroborating evidence to support a claim before we get the pitchforks and torches out, but then you also have a situation where its been 'protect the boys' (whether its been BBC child rapists, holy child rapists, social services and child rapists) - and low and behold, high profile celebrities, producers and actors committing sexual offences. When the law doesn't do its job, it shouldn't be too surprising that people seek justice through less palatable means. Although I am beginning to question whether this current rabid puritanical, often politically driven frenzy is not actually worse than a few dodgy b******s getting off. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (20 Nov 2017 5.10pm)
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Hrolf The Ganger

20 Nov 17 4.57pm

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Originally posted by jamiemartin721

When the law doesn't do its job, it shouldn't be too surprising that people seek justice through less palatable means.

Although I am beginning to question whether this current rabid puritanical, often politically driven frenzy is not actually worse than a few dodgy b******s getting off.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (20 Nov 2017 5.10pm)

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HeathMan Purley 20 Nov 17 5.05pm
Perhaps the accusers should be checked on Facebook for cases of "friends" meeting up after a number of years and settling their mates old scores. I cannot remember if I was naughty ten to thirty years ago - thankfully I am not a famous person. Hrolf is writing sense.
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HeathMan

Purley 20 Nov 17 5.05pm

Perhaps the accusers should be checked on Facebook for cases of "friends" meeting up after a number of years and settling their mates old scores. I cannot remember if I was naughty ten to thirty years ago - thankfully I am not a famous person. Hrolf is writing sense.

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jamiemartin721 Reading 20 Nov 17 5.13pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Although I am beginning to question whether this current rabid puritanical, often politically driven frenzy is not actually worse than a few dodgy b****s getting off. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (20 Nov 2017 5.10pm) Ach, what else is there to do with in the news. Rather than hearing about celebrity relationships, who was at Trampstar Palace, and who is dating whom among the talentless and pointless, I'm getting to enjoy watching them burn a few mediocre 'how the fk are they earning a living' celebrities get burned with the witches. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 20 Nov 17 5.13pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Although I am beginning to question whether this current rabid puritanical, often politically driven frenzy is not actually worse than a few dodgy b******s getting off.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (20 Nov 2017 5.10pm)

Ach, what else is there to do with in the news. Rather than hearing about celebrity relationships, who was at Trampstar Palace, and who is dating whom among the talentless and pointless, I'm getting to enjoy watching them burn a few mediocre 'how the f**k are they earning a living' celebrities get burned with the witches.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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jamiemartin721 Reading 20 Nov 17 5.14pm
Originally posted by HeathMan Perhaps the accusers should be checked on Facebook for cases of "friends" meeting up after a number of years and settling their mates old scores. I cannot remember if I was naughty ten to thirty years ago - thankfully I am not a famous person. Hrolf is writing sense. Do you think Kevin Spacey is being 'persecuted' then? "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 20 Nov 17 5.14pm

Originally posted by HeathMan

Do you think Kevin Spacey is being 'persecuted' then?

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Ray in Houston Houston 20 Nov 17 5.48pm
To put a little historical perspective on this, I read an article this weekend that discussed Shakespeare's "Measure for Measure" in the context of our current overturning of rocks regarding sexual harassment. As an Alleyn Old Boy, I'm always game for a discussion of his works (and Ben Affleck can burn in hell for his portrayal), but I think this is really notable. MFM was set in contemporary Vienna. The main thread of the plot is that Vienna has rules forbidding pre-marital sex, had never really enforced them, and now decided to enforce them. Claudio knocks up his girlfriend - who he plans to marry - but nevertheless is sentenced to death for his "crime". Isabella, Claudio's sister - a virgin with plans of becoming a nun - goes to Angelo, the man in charge, begging for leniency for her brother. Angelo offers to let Claudio go if Isabella will sleep with him. 1604 is when this play was written; and I don't mean just past four o'clock. Yet, here we have not only an examination of sexual harassment, but also of the hypocrisy of the overly pious who punish others for sins they themselves have committed. Four hundred years later, and all of this is still a thing and, perhaps even more depressingly, some here still doubt that it's real. Edited by Ray in Houston (20 Nov 2017 5.49pm) We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 20 Nov 17 5.48pm

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To put a little historical perspective on this, I read an article this weekend that discussed Shakespeare's "Measure for Measure" in the context of our current overturning of rocks regarding sexual harassment. As an Alleyn Old Boy, I'm always game for a discussion of his works (and Ben Affleck can burn in hell for his portrayal), but I think this is really notable.

MFM was set in contemporary Vienna. The main thread of the plot is that Vienna has rules forbidding pre-marital sex, had never really enforced them, and now decided to enforce them. Claudio knocks up his girlfriend - who he plans to marry - but nevertheless is sentenced to death for his "crime". Isabella, Claudio's sister - a virgin with plans of becoming a nun - goes to Angelo, the man in charge, begging for leniency for her brother. Angelo offers to let Claudio go if Isabella will sleep with him.

1604 is when this play was written; and I don't mean just past four o'clock. Yet, here we have not only an examination of sexual harassment, but also of the hypocrisy of the overly pious who punish others for sins they themselves have committed.

Four hundred years later, and all of this is still a thing and, perhaps even more depressingly, some here still doubt that it's real.

Edited by Ray in Houston (20 Nov 2017 5.49pm)

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 20 Nov 17 11.41pm
Al Franken has a second accuser, and darling of the left & CBS & PBS Interviewer Charlie Rose is at it as well.. Pro USA & Israel
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Jimenez

SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 20 Nov 17 11.41pm

Al Franken has a second accuser, and darling of the left & CBS & PBS Interviewer Charlie Rose is at it as well..

Pro USA & Israel

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HeathMan Purley 21 Nov 17 12.14am
Do you think Kevin Spacey is being 'persecuted' then? It is so often hard to know what is happening. There seems to be a quantity of floodgates being opened regarding the number of historic crimes being brought to public attention, and certain organisations appearing willing to sacrifice formerly respected individuals in order to appear now clean. It is a source of worry about the state of the world.
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HeathMan

Purley 21 Nov 17 12.14am

Do you think Kevin Spacey is being 'persecuted' then?

It is so often hard to know what is happening. There seems to be a quantity of floodgates being opened regarding the number of historic crimes being brought to public attention, and certain organisations appearing willing to sacrifice formerly respected individuals in order to appear now clean.

It is a source of worry about the state of the world.

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Stirlingsays 21 Nov 17 12.28am
Originally posted by jamiemartin721 Except of course with the value of having actual witches being accused. Sometimes I think the media can be too quick, and irresponsible - I'd like to see corroborating evidence to support a claim before we get the pitchforks and torches out, but then you also have a situation where its been 'protect the boys' (whether its been BBC child rapists, holy child rapists, social services and child rapists) - and low and behold, high profile celebrities, producers and actors committing sexual offences. When the law doesn't do its job, it shouldn't be too surprising that people seek justice through less palatable means. You would 'like to see corroborating evidence'? Perhaps if it were you being accused you'd like that very much indeed......perhaps you would insist on it. I agree that organisations protect themselves. I think it would be unrealistic to expect any different. However, there are boundaries to that as with everything else. No one should knowingly protect people with 'groping' fixations.....I don't think decent people do accept that then or now.....though then there was obviously a greater willingness to ignore realities that caused problems....being a trouble maker wasn't a good career move...Being able to have a position of 'plausible deniability' that couldn't be disproven was sensible....human nature...if not a particularly noble part of it. I think we have to realise that a lot of the criticisms of the BBC...not an organisation I'm a fan of....are centred on attitudes from a different cultural time......and it should be remembered that the abuse, real or imagined, occurred within that entitled celebrity culture. They had 'protected status' and to a lesser extent still now....now of course we live in an age where we have politically correct 'protected status'....I'd prefer an age where no one had that status. Still, as Morrissey said, are we going to lock up all our rock stars and actors because most of them were laying their willing groupies left right and centre and I bet some of them weren't 16. Jagger and so on.....mind you...given his recent output....some jail time would seem fitting feedback. Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Nov 2017 8.35am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

21 Nov 17 12.28am

Originally posted by jamiemartin721

When the law doesn't do its job, it shouldn't be too surprising that people seek justice through less palatable means.

You would 'like to see corroborating evidence'? Perhaps if it were you being accused you'd like that very much indeed......perhaps you would insist on it.

I agree that organisations protect themselves. I think it would be unrealistic to expect any different. However, there are boundaries to that as with everything else. No one should knowingly protect people with 'groping' fixations.....I don't think decent people do accept that then or now.....though then there was obviously a greater willingness to ignore realities that caused problems....being a trouble maker wasn't a good career move...Being able to have a position of 'plausible deniability' that couldn't be disproven was sensible....human nature...if not a particularly noble part of it.

I think we have to realise that a lot of the criticisms of the BBC...not an organisation I'm a fan of....are centred on attitudes from a different cultural time......and it should be remembered that the abuse, real or imagined, occurred within that entitled celebrity culture. They had 'protected status' and to a lesser extent still now....now of course we live in an age where we have politically correct 'protected status'....I'd prefer an age where no one had that status.

Still, as Morrissey said, are we going to lock up all our rock stars and actors because most of them were laying their willing groupies left right and centre and I bet some of them weren't 16.

Jagger and so on.....mind you...given his recent output....some jail time would seem fitting feedback.

Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Nov 2017 8.35am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Ray in Houston Houston 21 Nov 17 2.44pm
Originally posted by Jimenez Al Franken has a second accuser, and darling of the left & CBS & PBS Interviewer Charlie Rose is at it as well.. It's not limited to one party or the other, one ideology or another. What is different, though, is the reaction: the left appears to be dealing with its offenders far better than the right. - Weinstein was fired from his own company, kicked out of the Academy and is under criminal investigation; - Louis CK was fired by Netflix and had his movie - that was due out in a matter of weeks - cancelled; - Anthony Weiner is in jail; - Franken has apologized - such apology being accepted by his first victim - and has called for an investigation into himself; and - Charlie Rose has apologized and has been suspended from his TV gigs, but it's too soon to know what else happens here. If I've missed some "lefties" please let me know. In the meantime, Roy Moore continues to be supported by conservatives including, notably, Alabama's Governor and the White House. White House Counsel Kellyanne Conway said that it doesn't matter if he's a paedophile because they need his vote in the Senate to get the tax cuts passed. Alabama's Governor went further, saying that she believed Moore's accusers, but thinks that a paedo is better for the Senate than a Democrat. Moore is running neck and neck in the polls with the immaculately credentialed and behaved Doug Jones. Mel Gibson is starring in the #2 movie at the box office. Oh, and self-confessed pussy-grabber and botherer of naked teenagers, Donald Trump, is still President. We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 21 Nov 17 2.44pm

Originally posted by Jimenez

Al Franken has a second accuser, and darling of the left & CBS & PBS Interviewer Charlie Rose is at it as well..

It's not limited to one party or the other, one ideology or another. What is different, though, is the reaction: the left appears to be dealing with its offenders far better than the right.

- Weinstein was fired from his own company, kicked out of the Academy and is under criminal investigation;

- Louis CK was fired by Netflix and had his movie - that was due out in a matter of weeks - cancelled;

- Anthony Weiner is in jail;

- Franken has apologized - such apology being accepted by his first victim - and has called for an investigation into himself; and

- Charlie Rose has apologized and has been suspended from his TV gigs, but it's too soon to know what else happens here.

If I've missed some "lefties" please let me know.

In the meantime, Roy Moore continues to be supported by conservatives including, notably, Alabama's Governor and the White House. White House Counsel Kellyanne Conway said that it doesn't matter if he's a paedophile because they need his vote in the Senate to get the tax cuts passed. Alabama's Governor went further, saying that she believed Moore's accusers, but thinks that a paedo is better for the Senate than a Democrat. Moore is running neck and neck in the polls with the immaculately credentialed and behaved Doug Jones.

Mel Gibson is starring in the #2 movie at the box office.

Oh, and self-confessed pussy-grabber and botherer of naked teenagers, Donald Trump, is still President.

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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Ray in Houston Houston 21 Nov 17 2.50pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Personally, if sex is consensual then what Clinton or JFK did was between them and their wives as far as I'm concerned. If politicians are engaged in significant sexual harassment....that's something else. I suspect that what Bush Snr did is on a par with what creepy over friendly Joe Biden gets up to......all hidden in plain sight. Clinton and JFK had affairs, but both have also been accused of harassment. There's a difference, which you seem to keep wanting to blur so as to excuse on thing as being the other. Biden has been guilty of being handsy, as has Bush Jr. who famously freaked out Angela Merkel with an unexpected and uninvited shoulder rub at a G8 summit. Bush Sr. is a serial butt-grabber, which is a step up. All of this counts as battery under the law, if anyone wished to pursue charges, although I suspect the sentences would be appropriate pegged to the level of the offense. We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.
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Ray in Houston

Houston 21 Nov 17 2.50pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Personally, if sex is consensual then what Clinton or JFK did was between them and their wives as far as I'm concerned.

If politicians are engaged in significant sexual harassment....that's something else.

I suspect that what Bush Snr did is on a par with what creepy over friendly Joe Biden gets up to......all hidden in plain sight.

Clinton and JFK had affairs, but both have also been accused of harassment. There's a difference, which you seem to keep wanting to blur so as to excuse on thing as being the other.

Biden has been guilty of being handsy, as has Bush Jr. who famously freaked out Angela Merkel with an unexpected and uninvited shoulder rub at a G8 summit. Bush Sr. is a serial butt-grabber, which is a step up. All of this counts as battery under the law, if anyone wished to pursue charges, although I suspect the sentences would be appropriate pegged to the level of the offense.

We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football.

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