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Part Time James 04 Jul 17 1.43pm | |
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My contributions to this thread seem to have put me on the radar of Satanic cults that surprisingly have a decent array of banner adverts.
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jamiemartin721 Reading 04 Jul 17 2.09pm | |
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Originally posted by Lyons550
These kind of make sense, from a objective view point, because efficient energy patents could affect profits and would have no real interest to energy companies (who clearly wouldn't want to make less money). After all, if your business is fossil fuel, something like 'cold fusion' (for example) represents becoming obsolete. There was similar 'blackening' of the reputation of Nuclear energy (an arguably cleaner fuel than fossil fuels) by the oil and gas industry, focusing specifically on the Nuclear aspect.
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jamiemartin721 Reading 04 Jul 17 2.35pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
The problem is, why would geologists be interested in proving what they know is most probably the case an example of a very basic known phenomena, and UFO aficionados aren't going to want to prove it, they're busy with the 'truth' and they're only going to claim its a cover up, and write new conspiracies this time involving geologist working for the CIA or some such. Its pretty reasonable - Ayres rock and Tabletop mountain are examples of the phenomena, and they occur in most mountain regions across the world. The emphasis is on the researcher to prove that its not the product of a natural phenomena (i.e. you have to prove your hypothesis, by demonstrating that the null hypothesis is false and no other, more plausable explanation exists. People have always had a nice line in making money off believers. From religion, to cults, everyone wants to believe in something.
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jamiemartin721 Reading 04 Jul 17 2.46pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Clearly there is money to be made from the UFO phenomenon but are we really saying that it is all nonsense? Because only one event has to be real and there are people who have been in high places who seem convinced. Firstly, psychological phenomena aren't nonsense. Oddly, the study of parapsychology has revolutionised human understanding of neurology and how our senses work (read Paranormality - it's a book about how studying claims of the paranormal helps us understand more about the mind and brain). Secondly, I think that there is more to unearth here as well, its just that its in the 5-10% that can't be easily explained or the explaination is effectively a 'dismissal without justification' (i.e. Sceptics being too sceptical) Problem is, when ever an explaination of a paranormal phenomena occurs, its always going to be less exciting than the spurious claims. Telepathy becomes Body Language reading and NLP. Ghosts become infrasound etc and the believers aren't interested in that. People still believe in Spontanous Human Combustion - even though its been proven to be a combination of unlikely events. People claim that the events are 'unlikely' and that's true, but then cases of SHC are also incredibly rare so it wouldn't be unusual for them to consist of a unlikely occurrence of events. Basically the person passes out, or dies, typically exposed to a mild accelerant (usually alcohol or perfume), and a source of fire (cigarettes, fireplace or spark). The accelerant burns slowly but sufficiently to ignite the tissue fat, which causes the person to burn very thoroughly at a very high temperature.
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Hrolf The Ganger 04 Jul 17 3.11pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Firstly, psychological phenomena aren't nonsense. Oddly, the study of parapsychology has revolutionised human understanding of neurology and how our senses work (read Paranormality - it's a book about how studying claims of the paranormal helps us understand more about the mind and brain). Secondly, I think that there is more to unearth here as well, its just that its in the 5-10% that can't be easily explained or the explaination is effectively a 'dismissal without justification' (i.e. Sceptics being too sceptical) Problem is, when ever an explaination of a paranormal phenomena occurs, its always going to be less exciting than the spurious claims. Telepathy becomes Body Language reading and NLP. Ghosts become infrasound etc and the believers aren't interested in that. People still believe in Spontanous Human Combustion - even though its been proven to be a combination of unlikely events. People claim that the events are 'unlikely' and that's true, but then cases of SHC are also incredibly rare so it wouldn't be unusual for them to consist of a unlikely occurrence of events. Basically the person passes out, or dies, typically exposed to a mild accelerant (usually alcohol or perfume), and a source of fire (cigarettes, fireplace or spark). The accelerant burns slowly but sufficiently to ignite the tissue fat, which causes the person to burn very thoroughly at a very high temperature.
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Lyons550 Shirley 04 Jul 17 3.59pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
These kind of make sense, from a objective view point, because efficient energy patents could affect profits and would have no real interest to energy companies (who clearly wouldn't want to make less money). After all, if your business is fossil fuel, something like 'cold fusion' (for example) represents becoming obsolete. There was similar 'blackening' of the reputation of Nuclear energy (an arguably cleaner fuel than fossil fuels) by the oil and gas industry, focusing specifically on the Nuclear aspect.
Free energy would bring down governments...
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Lyons550 Shirley 04 Jul 17 4.01pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
The problem is, why would geologists be interested in proving what they know is most probably the case an example of a very basic known phenomena, and UFO aficionados aren't going to want to prove it, they're busy with the 'truth' and they're only going to claim its a cover up, and write new conspiracies this time involving geologist working for the CIA or some such. Its pretty reasonable - Ayres rock and Tabletop mountain are examples of the phenomena, and they occur in most mountain regions across the world. The emphasis is on the researcher to prove that its not the product of a natural phenomena (i.e. you have to prove your hypothesis, by demonstrating that the null hypothesis is false and no other, more plausable explanation exists. People have always had a nice line in making money off believers. From religion, to cults, everyone wants to believe in something.
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jamiemartin721 Reading 04 Jul 17 4.04pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
I don't think we should immediately dismiss peoples claims. I think that its necessary to investigate claims responsibly and thoroughly. But the problem is that no one really has an interest in doing that. I think sceptics and believers are inherently disposed towards their own belief, which if your dealing with perceived evidence is pretty difficult to evaluate. I'd say a minority of claims deserve proper investigation. But I think as well that when faced with evidence, believers (and some skeptics) tend to look to dismiss, in favour of their beliefs as opposed to countering that evidence. I'm kind of in that middle ground, that I don't know for certain, so I'm kind of interested in finding out what might be going on - especially in those few cases where the evidence outweighs the explaination. Problem is, no one like this is investigating these claims.
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jamiemartin721 Reading 04 Jul 17 4.07pm | |
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Originally posted by Lyons550
Dunno, I'm not a geologist. Maybe, but its not about having an opposing view, its about evidence that supports the rejection of a null hypothesis. Science isn't about opinions and what you think, its about what you can demonstrate and prove. Problem is your response is typical of believers, its not objective, its about defending what you believe rather than dealing with evidence. And the evidence is definitely on the Geological side.
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jamiemartin721 Reading 04 Jul 17 4.10pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
You should never exclude the improbable on the basis of it being improbable - As Sherlock says, once you dismiss the probable, what your left with is the improbabable and that's kind of how science works. You don't prove 'it could be aliens', you prove that it can't be anything else, systematically through testing all other hypothesis.
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Lyons550 Shirley 04 Jul 17 4.29pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Dunno, I'm not a geologist. Maybe, but its not about having an opposing view, its about evidence that supports the rejection of a null hypothesis. Science isn't about opinions and what you think, its about what you can demonstrate and prove. Problem is your response is typical of believers, its not objective, its about defending what you believe rather than dealing with evidence. And the evidence is definitely on the Geological side.
But then thats the point...in order to attempt to have a balanced view...both sides of the equation need to be considered and appreciated
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wordup 04 Jul 17 4.29pm | |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
You should never exclude the improbable on the basis of it being improbable - As Sherlock says, once you dismiss the probable, what your left with is the improbabable and that's kind of how science works. You don't prove 'it could be aliens', you prove that it can't be anything else, systematically through testing all other hypothesis. Correct."I'm not sure what this is so it must be controlled by aliens from another planet" is pretty far down any rational list. Edited by wordup (04 Jul 2017 4.30pm)
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