There's going to be details that came to their decision. People migrating here and willing to work for lower wages the 1st. Apart from the Towie crowd in Marbella I doubt many Brits going to live on the continent flock to 1 particular town or postcode because that's where British are pitching up.

You also have people who never have any intention to live abroad for longer than 2 weeks and want to keep infrastructure at a level they want for them and their family and those who like the idea of moving around for a few years here and there. Both those 2 questions you linked were probably asked to everyone which highlights the contradiction but you also get my stereotype.

A bit histrionic.

It's the same here with our Parliament. We obviously don't know what policies will be in action in 10 years or which new laws enabled. One thing is for sure - we also make stupid mistakes and stupid laws.

These are politicians don't forget. Trust them at your peril whether supporting the 'ins' or 'outs'.

I mostly like what the EU/EEC has given us looking at the bigger picture over the last five or six decades. Economic clout, peace, easy travel, cleaner rivers and seas, etc.

Some major things are fvcked up but leaving won't change that and we will still have serious problems here sovereignty or no sovereignty. You expect The Tories to solve our social ills?

50 million plus a day we pay the EU.

Not histrionic in the slightest. If you are trying to skewer those in support of leaving for "what the future will hold", expect it right back at you. You will have to work within the confines of a declining outmoded trade bloc, however.

"..the same here in our Parliament" -- so that's a candid confession that where a huge number of laws passed and handed down to us is not "ours". Good. We have 8.5% influence in the EUparl, which counts for FA given QVM. 300 EU rulings per day generated by an unelected commission and rubber-stamped by the EUparl, each of those 300 taking more power to Brussels.

"Economic clout...,"
I demonstrated this not to be the case. You clearly didn't look at the data. No matter. Horse, water.

"peace...,"
Yeah, who needed NATO when we have Van Rompuy. Give me a break - tell me you don't believe that, really??

"easy travel...,"
I've traveled extensively both in Europe and the rest of the world (you know, that place with 160+ countries outside the EU?). You're telling me the EU facilitated my visa-on-arrival in Australia? In Cambodia? Are those cheap flights all down to the EU too, and nothing to do with supply, demand and the rise of cheap low-cost carriers(despite EUcom efforts with the Emissions Trading Scheme)? Can the Swiss & Norwegians get NHS cover here? In other words, rubbish.

"cleaner rivers and seas, etc...." The seas are certainly cleaner, as our fish-stocks (60% of "EU" waters) have been decimated under the Common Fisheries Policy, and our fishing industry has declined massively. And as for rivers, I prefer them dredged (as they have been done in antiquity) and not flooding over the Somerset Levels & Cockermouth. We have the EU “Saving wetland habitats: more money for key sites” directive to thank for that.

Finally, as for "solving our social ills" - as per the majority of the other 160+ countries in the world, I would like our ELECTORATE to vote in the government to which we hold accountable to solve these "ills". If they don't do a good job, we boot them out and elect another. Why is this concept so hard for you people to understand?

Thank God someone with a grasp on reality. I doff my cap.

Nice try.

We are going into the unknown we all agree on that. I believe we will be worse off. Some agree, some don't. The ones that don't have jacksh*t to offer anything concrete that will be better off. There's a reason for that. No evidence. No definite proposed trade deals in place to cover any losses incurred on leaving. No talk about the safety of employment and the firms here who need the EU.

For those that want to stay at least we have the trade figures, economic clout and other benefits associated with being in the EU at hand.

You want to risk that. I don't. I want Britain as strong as it can be. Going backwards isn't going to help.

No U-turn Hoof. Never mind.

also, you called yourself a moderate earlier. What was that all about?

Edited by Kermit8 (24 Feb 2016 5.30pm)