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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 24 Oct 19 2.58pm
Originally posted by Willo We will have to agree to disagree on this matter but I respect your opinion and at least we can take alternative viewpoints without any vitriol or ordure. That's fine. I too respect the alternative view although disagreeing with it as I believe the long term consequences would lead to unwelcome outcomes. I believe we need to strengthen the rights and status of individual MPs and weaken the party grip, and not the reverse. As a matter of interest, given your obvious first hand experience, how many of the "door knocking leaflet distributors" do you think would be loyal to the member in your constituency, if they switched parties, and how many loyal to who-ever was selected to replace them? A charismatic MP with strong principles commands respect, especially if they serve a long time. People down here still speak fondly of David Penhaligon and, I think, would have voted for him if he had stood for the Monster Raving Loony Party. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 24 Oct 19 2.58pm

Originally posted by Willo

We will have to agree to disagree on this matter but I respect your opinion and at least we can take alternative viewpoints without any vitriol or ordure.

That's fine. I too respect the alternative view although disagreeing with it as I believe the long term consequences would lead to unwelcome outcomes. I believe we need to strengthen the rights and status of individual MPs and weaken the party grip, and not the reverse.

As a matter of interest, given your obvious first hand experience, how many of the "door knocking leaflet distributors" do you think would be loyal to the member in your constituency, if they switched parties, and how many loyal to who-ever was selected to replace them? A charismatic MP with strong principles commands respect, especially if they serve a long time. People down here still speak fondly of David Penhaligon and, I think, would have voted for him if he had stood for the Monster Raving Loony Party.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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steeleye20 Croydon 24 Oct 19 2.58pm
The general public are not psycho about the referendum like the HOL. They just wish brexit would end. The way to do that, cancel it. Any other option is a possible ten year stretch, like prison when you get released you are back where you started. What is the problem? Just ask the public. Send a copy of the 'deal' to them, see if anybody sane would sign it.
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steeleye20

Croydon 24 Oct 19 2.58pm

The general public are not psycho about the referendum like the HOL.

They just wish brexit would end.

The way to do that, cancel it.

Any other option is a possible ten year stretch, like prison when you get released you are back where you started.

What is the problem? Just ask the public.

Send a copy of the 'deal' to them, see if anybody sane would sign it.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 24 Oct 19 3.05pm
Originally posted by martin2412 What a load of cobblers. You do know that the people of Hackney or Barnsley would vote in a wardrobe if it had a red rosette pinned to it don't you ? As this thread has developed a little since I wrote that maybe you ought to read it all. Essentially why they vote as they do is their choice but the result is always an individual MP as their, and everyone else in the constituency's, representative. Not a party. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 24 Oct 19 3.05pm

Originally posted by martin2412

What a load of cobblers.

You do know that the people of Hackney or Barnsley would vote in a wardrobe if it had a red rosette pinned to it don't you ?

As this thread has developed a little since I wrote that maybe you ought to read it all.

Essentially why they vote as they do is their choice but the result is always an individual MP as their, and everyone else in the constituency's, representative. Not a party.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 24 Oct 19 3.16pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle That's fine. I too respect the alternative view although disagreeing with it as I believe the long term consequences would lead to unwelcome outcomes. I believe we need to strengthen the rights and status of individual MPs and weaken the party grip, and not the reverse. As a matter of interest, given your obvious first hand experience, how many of the "door knocking leaflet distributors" do you think would be loyal to the member in your constituency, if they switched parties, and how many loyal to who-ever was selected to replace them? A charismatic MP with strong principles commands respect, especially if they serve a long time. People down here still speak fondly of David Penhaligon and, I think, would have voted for him if he had stood for the Monster Raving Loony Party. From experience if a Conservative MP switched to for example the Lib Dems and fought an election as a Lib Dem, then the "Door knocking distributors" who had previously canvassed for the Conservative would canvass for the new Conservative candidate rather than the former Conservative who had switched parties.In the main the canvassers/leaflet distributors are members of the local party so they would support their local candidate. I recall in bygone days campaigning for Bernard Wetherill who was standing as the Speaker and so was a-political and in fact we wore green rosettes rather than blue ones.On numerous occasions I was asked which party he was standing for and I had to remind them that as speaker he was not standing on behalf of any party to which I sometimes received the retort akin to "Yes, but he's a Tory" etc etc. All very party driven at doorstep level!
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 24 Oct 19 3.16pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

As a matter of interest, given your obvious first hand experience, how many of the "door knocking leaflet distributors" do you think would be loyal to the member in your constituency, if they switched parties, and how many loyal to who-ever was selected to replace them? A charismatic MP with strong principles commands respect, especially if they serve a long time. People down here still speak fondly of David Penhaligon and, I think, would have voted for him if he had stood for the Monster Raving Loony Party.

From experience if a Conservative MP switched to for example the Lib Dems and fought an election as a Lib Dem, then the "Door knocking distributors" who had previously canvassed for the Conservative would canvass for the new Conservative candidate rather than the former Conservative who had switched parties.In the main the canvassers/leaflet distributors are members of the local party so they would support their local candidate.

I recall in bygone days campaigning for Bernard Wetherill who was standing as the Speaker and so was a-political and in fact we wore green rosettes rather than blue ones.On numerous occasions I was asked which party he was standing for and I had to remind them that as speaker he was not standing on behalf of any party to which I sometimes received the retort akin to "Yes, but he's a Tory" etc etc. All very party driven at doorstep level!

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steeleye20 Croydon 24 Oct 19 3.19pm
You see, the thing is 'we just need to get brexit done'. Wild applause, yeah yeah yeah... The thing is, cancelling does that. Nothing else does
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steeleye20

Croydon 24 Oct 19 3.19pm

You see, the thing is 'we just need to get brexit done'.

Wild applause, yeah yeah yeah...

The thing is, cancelling does that.

Nothing else does

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Midlands Eagle 24 Oct 19 3.24pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 You see, the thing is 'we just need to get brexit done'. Wild applause, yeah yeah yeah... The thing is, cancelling does that. Nothing else does Brexit stands for "Britain's exit" so how does cancelling it get it done
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Midlands Eagle

24 Oct 19 3.24pm

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Originally posted by steeleye20

You see, the thing is 'we just need to get brexit done'.

Wild applause, yeah yeah yeah...

The thing is, cancelling does that.

Nothing else does

Brexit stands for "Britain's exit" so how does cancelling it get it done

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steeleye20 Croydon 24 Oct 19 3.26pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle Brexit stands for "Britain's exit" so how does cancelling it get it done It terminates it, an ex-parrot
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steeleye20

Croydon 24 Oct 19 3.26pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

Brexit stands for "Britain's exit" so how does cancelling it get it done

It terminates it, an ex-parrot

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Eaglecoops CR3 24 Oct 19 3.54pm
Originally posted by SW19 CPFC The fact both sides exaggerated, fabricated and distracted, plus downright lied is a red herring. The issue here is the inability for people on either 'side' to admit that their vote was in part based on spurious nonsense that they lapped up and held onto like some kind of all powerful deity. Why? Because it makes them look and feel stupid. Well tough. You are. And I include myself in this particular point. The difference is I have listened and evolved my position accordingly. For some, it's the same as arguing with a religious nut. i.e. it's impossible as they are so far down the rabbit hole to admit otherwise makes their entire life a wasted sham. Of course if you voted in a vacuum, fair play. You were not in any way influenced by the torrent of media dross that swirled around this ridiculous circus of a campaign. But we all know that's bollocks. Everyone got played to some degree. Indeed, I too have evolved my position. At first I wanted to leave and now I really want to leave. Europe is finished, its only The UK Germany and France that hold it together.
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Eaglecoops

CR3 24 Oct 19 3.54pm

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

The fact both sides exaggerated, fabricated and distracted, plus downright lied is a red herring.

The issue here is the inability for people on either 'side' to admit that their vote was in part based on spurious nonsense that they lapped up and held onto like some kind of all powerful deity. Why? Because it makes them look and feel stupid. Well tough. You are. And I include myself in this particular point.

The difference is I have listened and evolved my position accordingly. For some, it's the same as arguing with a religious nut. i.e. it's impossible as they are so far down the rabbit hole to admit otherwise makes their entire life a wasted sham.

Of course if you voted in a vacuum, fair play. You were not in any way influenced by the torrent of media dross that swirled around this ridiculous circus of a campaign. But we all know that's bollocks. Everyone got played to some degree.

Indeed, I too have evolved my position. At first I wanted to leave and now I really want to leave. Europe is finished, its only The UK Germany and France that hold it together.

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Invalid user 2019 24 Oct 19 4.09pm
Despite the endless can kicking I think we're on course for a December or January GE now. I can see the Conservatives gaining a majority based on both polls, and the Labour and Lib Dem vote split. It could be argued that the Conservatives vote will be split too of course, but plenty of Brexit party voter will hold their noses for the sake of getting Brexit in one form or another over the line.
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Invalid user 2019

24 Oct 19 4.09pm

Despite the endless can kicking I think we're on course for a December or January GE now. I can see the Conservatives gaining a majority based on both polls, and the Labour and Lib Dem vote split. It could be argued that the Conservatives vote will be split too of course, but plenty of Brexit party voter will hold their noses for the sake of getting Brexit in one form or another over the line.

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the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 24 Oct 19 4.13pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle Are you confusing Wissy with normal people? apparently I was, sorry!!
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the silurian

The garden of England.(not really) 24 Oct 19 4.13pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

Are you confusing Wissy with normal people?

apparently I was, sorry!!

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the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 24 Oct 19 4.16pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle You can decide on whatever basis you like. That's your choice and your right. What you get though is an individual MP and not a lobby sheep, so your impression is wrong. I understand the argument that those who think if MPs change parties they ought to resign and that it is a widely held opinion. My view, which is I think shared by most MPs, is if it ever became mandatory, or even habitual, for an MP to do so then the whole basis of our Parliamentary democracy would change. Every MP would then be totally controlled by their party and it would relegate their roles to being mere functionaries. It would mean the party outside of Parliament dictating what the MPs must do. We want our MPs deciding. You might want the party in control but think of the future. Imagine a Labour government controlled by a Labour Party taken over by Marxists. you would say black was white if I or anyone who doesnt agree with your bizzare views said something was black....
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the silurian

The garden of England.(not really) 24 Oct 19 4.16pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

You can decide on whatever basis you like. That's your choice and your right. What you get though is an individual MP and not a lobby sheep, so your impression is wrong.

I understand the argument that those who think if MPs change parties they ought to resign and that it is a widely held opinion. My view, which is I think shared by most MPs, is if it ever became mandatory, or even habitual, for an MP to do so then the whole basis of our Parliamentary democracy would change. Every MP would then be totally controlled by their party and it would relegate their roles to being mere functionaries. It would mean the party outside of Parliament dictating what the MPs must do. We want our MPs deciding.

You might want the party in control but think of the future. Imagine a Labour government controlled by a Labour Party taken over by Marxists.

you would say black was white if I or anyone who doesnt agree with your bizzare views said something was black....

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Maine Eagle USA 24 Oct 19 4.20pm
Originally posted by mezzer You say they lied more, so that's a majority of lies. Not 50/50? Or do majorities only count when they suit your argument? Yes 50/50 is not a majority. I learnt that early on in school. Not sure I get your point here. I admitted remain lied. Both sides lied. Ergo, the previous referendum was built on a pack of lies. Many of those lies have been debunked. Ergo, have a new vote. Trump lost. Badly. Hahahahahahaha.
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Maine Eagle

USA 24 Oct 19 4.20pm