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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 Wisbech Eagle  Truro Cornwall 20 Oct 19 11.10am |
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Originally posted by cryrst
How can that possibly be known to the letter. This establishes the framework of those negotiations, what their objectives are and the intended outcomes. Crucially it will specify how much Parliament will be involved and how and when the government negotiators will have to report back to Parliament and seek their approval. It may well write specific requirements into it about what must happen should a problem be encountered. This is Parliament ensuring it has full control.
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| Badger11 Beckenham 20 Oct 19 11.15am |
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"Your description is how the government want you to see it, but it isn't true. The PM and government cannot act unlawfully. " No I wasn't talking about the law I was talking about how any person who is forced to do something they don't want to may do so with ill grace. You can call it childish I call it human nature and of course he has to obey the law and I believe he has. As for Parliament needing time Remainers keep saying that Boris's deal is just the May deal with a few amendments so how much scrutiny does it really need. Parliament passed the Lisbon treaty in 5 days. But I agree with you even if he wins the vote this will be the first of many as MPs try to block or amend it. Of course it would be ironic if they overplayed their hand and were so successful that they ran out of time because the EU refuses to give an extension.
One more point |
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| dynamicdick Dormansland 20 Oct 19 11.22am |
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Originally posted by Badger11
"Your description is how the government want you to see it, but it isn't true. The PM and government cannot act unlawfully. " No I wasn't talking about the law I was talking about how any person who is forced to do something they don't want to may do so with ill grace. You can call it childish I call it human nature and of course he has to obey the law and I believe he has. As for Parliament needing time Remainers keep saying that Boris's deal is just the May deal with a few amendments so how much scrutiny does it really need. Parliament passed the Lisbon treaty in 5 days. But I agree with you even if he wins the vote this will be the first of many as MPs try to block or amend it. Of course it would be ironic if they overplayed their hand and were so successful that they ran out of time because the EU refuses to give an extension. So what actually is the difference between the May and Johnson deals? As for more delays, more Brexit blocking from the remainers which will have a continuing adverse effect on our economy. GET IT DONE!
Bring back Brolin |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 20 Oct 19 11.32am |
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Originally posted by Badger11
Andrew Pearce reckons Boris has the votes I am not sure how he arrived at that conclusion but certainly a number of MPS who voted for Letwin have since said they will vote for the deal. This all comes down to whether Bercow will allow the motion to be put. A fair minded speaker would acknowledge that the government never actually put their motion to the house and so would allow it, a fair minded speaker that is. Parliament has an odd way of working yesterday the government wanted the house to vote on a motion Letwin effectively said no you don't want to vote on that vote on this one instead. PLCs have shareholder meetings all the time. The board puts a motion to award the directors a massive bonus. Rebel shareholders put down a motion to sack the board both motions are voted on. That seems a fairer way of doing it rather than changing somebody else's motion. Yet Another reason to review how Parliament works in its arcane ways. Edited by Badger11 (20 Oct 2019 9.27am) The Letwin amendment is now attached and it's requirements must be honoured. That won't stop the bill being debated but Parliamentary approval cannot be given until the withdrawal bill has been passed. How the speaker decides to handle this has nothing to do with "fairness", but just practicality. The problem might arise because the same bill cannot be presented 3 times so then timing becomes an important consideration. I am not though very sure about that.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 20 Oct 19 11.44am |
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Originally posted by Badger11
"Your description is how the government want you to see it, but it isn't true. The PM and government cannot act unlawfully. " No I wasn't talking about the law I was talking about how any person who is forced to do something they don't want to may do so with ill grace. You can call it childish I call it human nature and of course he has to obey the law and I believe he has. If he has, and that has yet to be definitively established, then he has acted in an extremely foolish way which demeans the office he holds and makes us the laughing stock of the world. As for Parliament needing time Remainers keep saying that Boris's deal is just the May deal with a few amendments so how much scrutiny does it really need. Parliament passed the Lisbon treaty in 5 days. It's like the May deal only in the uncontroversial detail of how much we pay, citizen's rights etc. There are substantive changes to the way regulatory alignment will be negotiated and it's there where Parliament don't trust Johnson to keep his word and want to supervise him. But I agree with you even if he wins the vote this will be the first of many as MPs try to block or amend it. Of course it would be ironic if they overplayed their hand and were so successful that they ran out of time because the EU refuses to give an extension. It will be amended. It needs to be amended to make sure no tricks are tried by this dishonourable government. Blocked? I don't think so. There may well be an attempt to force a confirmatory referendum after everything has been concluded but I don't see that succeeding.
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| dynamicdick Dormansland 20 Oct 19 11.46am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
The Letwin amendment is now attached and it's requirements must be honoured. That won't stop the bill being debated but Parliamentary approval cannot be given until the withdrawal bill has been passed. How the speaker decides to handle this has nothing to do with "fairness", but just practicality. The problem might arise because the same bill cannot be presented 3 times so then timing becomes an important consideration. I am not though very sure about that. When you have a Remain voting and totally biased Speaker in John Bercow the chances of him allowing anything to do with getting the Johnson agreement voted on is akin to finding Rocking Horse s—t.
Bring back Brolin |
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| dynamicdick Dormansland 20 Oct 19 11.50am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
NOT a dishonorable Government but the Speaker definitely is. The voice and vote of the 17.4M must be heard and acted upon.
Bring back Brolin |
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| DANGERCLOSE London 20 Oct 19 12.05pm |
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Originally posted by dynamicdick
NOT a dishonorable Government but the Speaker definitely is. The voice and vote of the 17.4M must be heard and acted upon. Agreed
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| elgrande bedford 20 Oct 19 12.15pm |
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The "Letwin" amendment wasnt his idea. He was just the stool pigeon.
always a Norwood boy, where ever I live. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 20 Oct 19 1.41pm |
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Originally posted by dynamicdick
When you have a Remain voting and totally biased Speaker in John Bercow the chances of him allowing anything to do with getting the Johnson agreement voted on is akin to finding Rocking Horse s—t. The Speaker is just the Speaker. He has rules and conventions to follow. That he defends Parliament's rights against a government trying to railroad it's plans through is exactly what ANY Speaker would do. Unless he is, of course, a stool pigeon of the government.
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| steeleye20 Croydon 20 Oct 19 1.43pm |
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Not a dishonourable government, you must be joking. On 'Super Saturday' MPs were presented with the 553 page legal text as the debate started !!!! No time to study, seek or take advice especially legal, it is a good job Letwin came to the rescue, there is some common sense after all.
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| the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 20 Oct 19 1.45pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
The Letwin amendment is now attached and it's requirements must be honoured. That won't stop the bill being debated but Parliamentary approval cannot be given until the withdrawal bill has been passed. How the speaker decides to handle this has nothing to do with "fairness", but just practicality. like the referendum result has been honoured you mean?
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