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General Election 2017
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  Hrolf The Ganger  25 May 17 10.15am |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
If Labour wins then the working class will be much better off. Labour also now have something like a 10-20 point lead among the youngest voters. It's less class based today than in the past. It's hard to suggest it would be anyone's fault if Labour don't win as there is no guarantee or way of telling that they would have done better under a more "Blairite" candidate for example. At the end of the day Corbyn will have to shoulder some of the blame for being so stubborn, but so will the PLP and the membership. It could be suggested that a better presented and more press friendly leader with the exact same policies and things would be very different. But who knows. Based on what? You cannot possibly predict that.
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Kermit8  Hevon 25 May 17 10.17am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
The truth I'm referring to is that the 'progressive' takeover of Labour's leadership which the Labour membership enabled has ultimately failed the British working class in this country. The fact that this would happen has been obvious to most for a very long time and yet the 'progressive' membership of the Labour party still re-elected Corbyn. Hence supporters of Corbyn, like yourself, deserve criticism for ultimately not providing the country with what they can point to as a viable alternative. Apparently it is always someone else's fault. Not to my eyes it isn't. The truth is that the 'progressive' takeover of Labour has been the biggest waste of time and energy since I can remember. It's so short sighted...The UK is an aging nation of home owners, where the older vote far more often...'Progressive' leadership is never going to work...You would have been far better off with keeping the 'progressive' element more low key. All you have achieved is a cementing in of a Conservative leadership. I consider myself a red Tory so for me that is a mixed bag. Blair started it all with his Tory-lite New Labour for sure and they haven't shaken off those shackles. But we have to remember that before him the right-wing media and others others had patronised, conspired and lied to 'the working classes' in order to keep more traditional Labourites like Neil Kinnock from No.10. It was no myth that Murdoch and The Sun could sway the election either way back then. New Labour worked to win an election and they were alright for a few years but then came 'spin' and image and the bollocks that goes with that - and The Tories do do it so much better - so you are not wrong in what you have said. Corbyn is old Labour but I would have very little optimism in any front-bench team he put together. The same as May and her little gang. Pretty pathetic insipid bunch of politicians on both sides of the House. Worst than I can remember.
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| Kermit8 Hevon 25 May 17 10.20am |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Based on what? You cannot possibly predict that. Well, based on political and social history. NHS, minimum wage, workers' rights, etc. All very much achieved from a left of centre perspective.
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 25 May 17 10.22am |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
Well, based on political and social history. NHS, minimum wage, workers' rights, etc. All very much achieved from a left of centre perspective. Manifesto comparisons of commitments on workers' rights, minimum wages, investment in public services, reversing cuts in working tax credits, provision of universal social care (no dementia tax).
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 25 May 17 10.23am |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Excuses excuses. Analysis analysis.
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| hedgehog50 Croydon 25 May 17 10.23am |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
Blair started it all with his Tory-lite New Labour for sure and they haven't shaken off those shackles. But we have to remember that before him the right-wing media and others others had patronised, conspired and lied to 'the working classes' in order to keep more traditional Labourites like Neil Kinnock from No.10. It was no myth that Murdoch and The Sun could sway the election either way back then. New Labour worked to win an election and they were alright for a few years but then came 'spin' and image and the bollocks that goes with that - and The Tories do do it so much better - so you are not wrong in what you have said. Corbyn is old Labour but I would have very little optimism in any front-bench team he put together. The same as May and her little gang. Pretty pathetic insipid bunch of politicians on both sides of the House. Worst than I can remember. No he is not. He is very much new left. Old Labour, going back to the likes of Attlee and Bevin, then on to a few of their heirs, basically wanted to better the lives and opportunities of ordinary British (Attlee was a great patriot) people. The new left wants to pander to various racial and social minorities and pursue dogmatic economic ideas that have been shown repeatedly to fail.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 25 May 17 10.24am |
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Originally posted by Hansy
The average secondary school class in England contained 20.4 students according to the latest school census. Data collected by the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) found that the UK had some of the smallest average class sizes in the developed world. Although class sizes in Japan and Germany tend to be larger, children in both countries out-performed UK students in the latest influential PISA rankings. - BBC report in Jan 2017. [Link] That's a surprise. Although large class sizes are growing. What are the figures for primary? The last 4 years I taught I always had more than 30 pupils.
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| Hansy 25 May 17 10.26am |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Manifesto comparisons of commitments on workers' rights, minimum wages, investment in public services, reversing cuts in working tax credits, provision of universal social care (no dementia tax). That could mean they are better off now, but not in 4-8 years time. Labour have targeted the Young and non-voters as they do every year. This year is different I feel, as the manifesto is targeting specific age groups. Free tuition now, but when you do find work your tax rate could increase.
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 25 May 17 10.27am |
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Originally posted by Hansy
That could mean they are better off now, but not in 4-8 years time. Labour have targeted the Young and non-voters as they do every year. This year is different I feel, as the manifesto is targeting specific age groups. Free tuition now, but when you do find work your tax rate could increase. At least if labour get in there will be a decent minimum wage and a lot less zero hours contracts.
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| Stirlingsays 25 May 17 10.30am |
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I'm not that fond of May.....But she's a million miles better than Cameron. The blue rinse voted 'pretty boy' in not me. I was a Davis supporter.....that's someone with talent who finally has a position befitting his talent. He will get the best deal possible for this country. The 'supplicant' positions pushed by the left in regards to the EU in this country are nothing short of a joke. They are all codeword positions for rejecting the result and looking to stay in by a sort of admitted defeat....weak as feck and negotiators would make mince meat of them.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 25 May 17 10.31am |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Analysis analysis. BS BS.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 25 May 17 10.32am |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
At least if labour get in there will be a decent minimum wage and a lot less zero hours contracts. If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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