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cryrst The garden of England 05 Oct 22 9.22pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Context matters. If a transgender female walks into a ladies toilet, uses a cubicle, comes out, washes her hands, adjusts her makeup and walks out, no-one knows. If you or I did the same they would. If I used a public urinal I would feel uncomfortable. Forgive me if don’t explain why! So I always use a cubicle in male toilets. But you have no qualms about nudism in front of any one of any age of any sex !
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cryrst

The garden of England 05 Oct 22 9.22pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Context matters.

If a transgender female walks into a ladies toilet, uses a cubicle, comes out, washes her hands, adjusts her makeup and walks out, no-one knows.

If you or I did the same they would.

If I used a public urinal I would feel uncomfortable. Forgive me if don’t explain why! So I always use a cubicle in male toilets.

But you have no qualms about nudism in front of any one of any age of any sex !

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Teddy Eagle 05 Oct 22 9.23pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle In the sense that they aren’t as a group, which was the assertion. Still meaningless. In a group nor is anyone else. Individually however they might be.
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Teddy Eagle

05 Oct 22 9.23pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

In the sense that they aren’t as a group, which was the assertion.

Still meaningless. In a group nor is anyone else. Individually however they might be.

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Teddy Eagle 05 Oct 22 9.27pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle Context matters. If a transgender female walks into a ladies toilet, uses a cubicle, comes out, washes her hands, adjusts her makeup and walks out, no-one knows. If you or I did the same they would. If I used a public urinal I would feel uncomfortable. Forgive me if don’t explain why! So I always use a cubicle in male toilets. And if someone who is physically male is walking around nude in a ladies changing room in front of all ages might they notice?
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Teddy Eagle

05 Oct 22 9.27pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Context matters.

If a transgender female walks into a ladies toilet, uses a cubicle, comes out, washes her hands, adjusts her makeup and walks out, no-one knows.

If you or I did the same they would.

If I used a public urinal I would feel uncomfortable. Forgive me if don’t explain why! So I always use a cubicle in male toilets.

And if someone who is physically male is walking around nude in a ladies changing room in front of all ages might they notice?

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 05 Oct 22 9.42pm
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle And if someone who is physically male is walking around nude in a ladies changing room in front of all ages might they notice? I think everyone there would, as would the police very quickly. The same applies just about anywhere! Any transgender doing that would have no excuses and no support from other transgenders. This isn’t about making silly circumstances like that legal. It’s about finding sensible arrangements in which everyone is comfortable. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 05 Oct 22 9.42pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

And if someone who is physically male is walking around nude in a ladies changing room in front of all ages might they notice?

I think everyone there would, as would the police very quickly.

The same applies just about anywhere!

Any transgender doing that would have no excuses and no support from other transgenders.

This isn’t about making silly circumstances like that legal. It’s about finding sensible arrangements in which everyone is comfortable.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 05 Oct 22 9.45pm
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle Still meaningless. In a group nor is anyone else. Individually however they might be. The meaning is there. I suggest you go back and read the comments again as I don’t think I can explain it any more clearly. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 05 Oct 22 9.45pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Still meaningless. In a group nor is anyone else. Individually however they might be.

The meaning is there. I suggest you go back and read the comments again as I don’t think I can explain it any more clearly.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Teddy Eagle 05 Oct 22 9.55pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I think everyone there would, as would the police very quickly. The same applies just about anywhere! Any transgender doing that would have no excuses and no support from other transgenders. This isn’t about making silly circumstances like that legal. It’s about finding sensible arrangements in which everyone is comfortable. My wife tells me the ladies' changing room and shower at the local gym are communal and have no separate cubicles so it's hard to see how the situation could be avoided. Maybe allocated timeslots? Mind you with the amount of time she takes to get ready they'd have to be quite extensive.
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Teddy Eagle

05 Oct 22 9.55pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I think everyone there would, as would the police very quickly.

The same applies just about anywhere!

Any transgender doing that would have no excuses and no support from other transgenders.

This isn’t about making silly circumstances like that legal. It’s about finding sensible arrangements in which everyone is comfortable.

My wife tells me the ladies' changing room and shower at the local gym are communal and have no separate cubicles so it's hard to see how the situation could be avoided. Maybe allocated timeslots? Mind you with the amount of time she takes to get ready they'd have to be quite extensive.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 05 Oct 22 10.05pm
Originally posted by Teddy Eagle My wife tells me the ladies' changing room and shower at the local gym are communal and have no separate cubicles so it's hard to see how the situation could be avoided. Maybe allocated timeslots? Mind you with the amount of time she takes to get ready they'd have to be quite extensive. That’s unacceptable, at least in my book. I would tell them that “other gyms are available”. I know what you mean about the time that the ladies take to get ready though. Only beaten by the time they take doing clothes shopping! For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 05 Oct 22 10.05pm

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

That’s unacceptable, at least in my book.

I would tell them that “other gyms are available”.

I know what you mean about the time that the ladies take to get ready though. Only beaten by the time they take doing clothes shopping!

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Teddy Eagle 05 Oct 22 11.14pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I think everyone there would, as would the police very quickly. The same applies just about anywhere! Any transgender doing that would have no excuses and no support from other transgenders. This isn’t about making silly circumstances like that legal. It’s about finding sensible arrangements in which everyone is comfortable. There you are then - we agree.
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Teddy Eagle

05 Oct 22 11.14pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I think everyone there would, as would the police very quickly.

The same applies just about anywhere!

Any transgender doing that would have no excuses and no support from other transgenders.

This isn’t about making silly circumstances like that legal. It’s about finding sensible arrangements in which everyone is comfortable.

There you are then - we agree.

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HKOwen Hong Kong 06 Oct 22 12.12am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I think everyone there would, as would the police very quickly. The same applies just about anywhere! Any transgender doing that would have no excuses and no support from other transgenders. This isn’t about making silly circumstances like that legal. It’s about finding sensible arrangements in which everyone is comfortable. There are numerous cases of naked men in female changing spaces and because they have identified as trans there is nothing to be done. Complainers will be likely become the target themselves for being transphobic. This is not a silly circumstance, it is happening. Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.
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HKOwen

Hong Kong 06 Oct 22 12.12am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I think everyone there would, as would the police very quickly.

The same applies just about anywhere!

Any transgender doing that would have no excuses and no support from other transgenders.

This isn’t about making silly circumstances like that legal. It’s about finding sensible arrangements in which everyone is comfortable.

There are numerous cases of naked men in female changing spaces and because they have identified as trans there is nothing to be done. Complainers will be likely become the target themselves for being transphobic.

This is not a silly circumstance, it is happening.

Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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Tim Gypsy Hill '64 Stoke sub normal 06 Oct 22 1.05am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle This discussion has centred on male to female transgenderism and my remarks were in that context. Female to male has not yet been mentioned, except by yourself and is something I am less informed on. My younger grandchild is not as far down the road and iI haven’t had the same conversations with them as I have with the older one. Indeed any conversations we have had have been with my wife, in confidence, and not with me. The problems found at Tavistock are regarded as a steppingstone stone to better support. They aren’t defended. I am not a clinician but I trust those that are understand the effects of every medication they prescribe. They are the experts. I am not so make no judgment. As you have more direct experience of the impact of the attitudes of others on female to male transgenders what is your view on what facilities they should use? The subject is "transgender". Nothing is centred on anything other than transgender. You may wish to address your limited knowledge on your own family only, but the discussion is about uniforms for Virgin Atlantic staff, and where people they are permitted to mix with the opposite sex. You appear to suggest that men should be able to mix with women in female safe spaces. Not trans men. Men, who have the capability to have penetative sex with other people. That is comprehensively unacceptable. As to my view on which facilities they should use, it's rather obvious to most people. Most women would mind very much if a trans woman were to use their cubicles, whereas most men wouldn't be too worried is a trans man used their cubicle. They would feel more uncomfortable if a gay man was standing next to them at a urinal. The main difference being that men are capable of rape. The men would at no time be subjected to any more risk of rape than is already present. But allowing trans women into female public spaces exposes women to greater risks. It is undeniable that bad people will exploit this whenever they can. And one woman raped is NOT an acceptible risk of gender neutral areas for everyone. Edited by Tim Gypsy Hill '64 (06 Oct 2022 1.12am) Systematically dragged down by the lawmakers
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Tim Gypsy Hill '64

Stoke sub normal 06 Oct 22 1.05am

Send a Private Message to Tim Gypsy Hill '64

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

This discussion has centred on male to female transgenderism and my remarks were in that context.

Female to male has not yet been mentioned, except by yourself and is something I am less informed on. My younger grandchild is not as far down the road and iI haven’t had the same conversations with them as I have with the older one. Indeed any conversations we have had have been with my wife, in confidence, and not with me.

The problems found at Tavistock are regarded as a steppingstone stone to better support. They aren’t defended.

I am not a clinician but I trust those that are understand the effects of every medication they prescribe. They are the experts. I am not so make no judgment.
As you have more direct experience of the impact of the attitudes of others on female to male transgenders what is your view on what facilities they should use?

The subject is "transgender". Nothing is centred on anything other than transgender. You may wish to address your limited knowledge on your own family only, but the discussion is about uniforms for Virgin Atlantic staff, and where people they are permitted to mix with the opposite sex.

You appear to suggest that men should be able to mix with women in female safe spaces. Not trans men. Men, who have the capability to have penetative sex with other people. That is comprehensively unacceptable.

As to my view on which facilities they should use, it's rather obvious to most people. Most women would mind very much if a trans woman were to use their cubicles, whereas most men wouldn't be too worried is a trans man used their cubicle. They would feel more uncomfortable if a gay man was standing next to them at a urinal. The main difference being that men are capable of rape. The men would at no time be subjected to any more risk of rape than is already present.

But allowing trans women into female public spaces exposes women to greater risks. It is undeniable that bad people will exploit this whenever they can. And one woman raped is NOT an acceptible risk of gender neutral areas for everyone.

Edited by Tim Gypsy Hill '64 (06 Oct 2022 1.12am)

Systematically dragged down by the lawmakers

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