Why Can't The French Stop Them Coming?

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Why Can't The French Stop Them Coming?

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croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 13 Sep 21 3.43pm
Originally posted by cryrst Tbh you can drive 7500 kg on your license now and up to 12000kg with a trailer so not sure what problem 3 ton would cause. Tractors as well so no excuse for you, you old carrot cruncher That uber still grates doesn't it. Karma will get them this Xmas when they aren't taking 600 a day, just their salary so save your smiles. Think its only if you took it before 1997, and boris is thinking of combining the class c with the class e, which is for articulated lorries and can only be taken 2 weeks after the class c at present, not together- should be interesting on them there roads!
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croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 13 Sep 21 3.43pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Tbh you can drive 7500 kg on your license now and up to 12000kg with a trailer so not sure what problem 3 ton would cause.
Tractors as well so no excuse for you, you old carrot cruncher
That uber still grates doesn't it. Karma will get them this Xmas when they aren't taking 600 a day, just their salary so save your smiles.

Think its only if you took it before 1997, and boris is thinking of combining the class c with the class e, which is for articulated lorries and can only be taken 2 weeks after the class c at present, not together- should be interesting on them there roads!

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eagleman13 On The Road To Hell & Alicante 13 Sep 21 3.45pm
Originally posted by cryrst Tbh you can drive 7500 kg on your license now and up to 12000kg with a trailer so not sure what problem 3 ton would cause. Tractors as well so no excuse for you, you old carrot cruncher That uber still grates doesn't it. Karma will get them this Xmas when they aren't taking 600 a day, just their salary so save your smiles. Sorry cryst, not quite true anymore. If you were over 21 before 2002 & held a full GB license, then yes you can. A 7.5t vehicle is now classed as a Class 4 LGV(as is anything 5t & over). This operation, will make the 'Charge Of The Light Brigade' seem like a simple military exercise.
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eagleman13

On The Road To Hell & Alicante 13 Sep 21 3.45pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Sorry cryst, not quite true anymore. If you were over 21 before 2002 & held a full GB license, then yes you can. A 7.5t vehicle is now classed as a Class 4 LGV(as is anything 5t & over).

This operation, will make the 'Charge Of The Light Brigade' seem like a simple military exercise.

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Hrolf The Ganger 13 Sep 21 3.48pm
Originally posted by kuge The implication that immigration is linked to crime or social cohesion is as I expect you are aware a questionable cause fallacy, as correlation does not imply causation. The other problem with this argument is that crime in the UK has over the past 40 years fallen quite dramatically. Edited by kuge (13 Sep 2021 3.05pm) Here you go again. That is straight out of the Leftist hand book of denial. Statistics can be very misleading. Turn your attention to this link and open the spread sheets. [Link] Judging by this, violent crime has increased enormously since the 1980s. The trend has declined, but is now on the rise again. Given the amount of surveillance and science available to the police, it would be astonishing if violent crime hadn't become less appealing. Sadly, what you see with your own eyes and experience yourself is usually far more accurate than easily manipulated stats. Anyone who thinks that Britain is a safer place in 2021 than it was in 1951 obviously has never been outside. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (13 Sep 2021 3.51pm)
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Hrolf The Ganger

13 Sep 21 3.48pm

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Originally posted by kuge

The implication that immigration is linked to crime or social cohesion is as I expect you are aware a questionable cause fallacy, as correlation does not imply causation. The other problem with this argument is that crime in the UK has over the past 40 years fallen quite dramatically.

Edited by kuge (13 Sep 2021 3.05pm)

Here you go again. That is straight out of the Leftist hand book of denial.

Statistics can be very misleading.

Turn your attention to this link and open the spread sheets.

[Link]

Judging by this, violent crime has increased enormously since the 1980s.
The trend has declined, but is now on the rise again.
Given the amount of surveillance and science available to the police, it would be astonishing if violent crime hadn't become less appealing. Sadly, what you see with your own eyes and experience yourself is usually far more accurate than easily manipulated stats.
Anyone who thinks that Britain is a safer place in 2021 than it was in 1951 obviously has never been outside.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (13 Sep 2021 3.51pm)

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PalazioVecchio south pole 13 Sep 21 4.39pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Anyone who thinks that Britain is a safer place in 2021 than it was in 1951 obviously has never been outside. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (13 Sep 2021 3.51pm) The Krays were notorious because their crimes were relatively rare. Today, the Krays would not even be famous ( nor infamous ). Their story would be swallowed up in the crimewave of Croydon, London or whereverthef..ck. Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford
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PalazioVecchio

south pole 13 Sep 21 4.39pm

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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Anyone who thinks that Britain is a safer place in 2021 than it was in 1951 obviously has never been outside.

Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (13 Sep 2021 3.51pm)

The Krays were notorious because their crimes were relatively rare.

Today, the Krays would not even be famous ( nor infamous ). Their story would be swallowed up in the crimewave of Croydon, London or whereverthef..ck.

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

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croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 13 Sep 21 4.43pm
Originally posted by PalazioVecchio The Krays were notorious because their crimes were relatively rare. Today, the Krays would not even be famous ( nor infamous ). Their story would be swallowed up in the crimewave of Croydon, London or whereverthef..ck. The Albanians are the daddys, anyone who gets in their way would have some explaining to do.
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croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 13 Sep 21 4.43pm

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

The Krays were notorious because their crimes were relatively rare.

Today, the Krays would not even be famous ( nor infamous ). Their story would be swallowed up in the crimewave of Croydon, London or whereverthef..ck.

The Albanians are the daddys, anyone who gets in their way would have some explaining to do.

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kuge Peckham 13 Sep 21 4.47pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Still in denial it seems. How statistics are gathered has changed...Also I think you're referring to 'crime surveys' rather than Police statistics which increases since 2014. Crime surveys are flawed....for example, half of all knife crime happens in London, so a national crime survey isn't going to reflect the concerns there because outside of cities it's less common. Unfortunately for your contention, crimes like homicides can't be mucked around with and the pretense clearly fails. Go and look at the historical data for England and Wales from say 1940, note the population size and then compare it to now. Also the 'correlation does not imply causation' excuse doesn't work because it happens pretty much in every region hit by high immigration. Also the higher crime rate follows certain groups around independent of the country they reside in. Indeed, even when you filter...which is a far more sensible immigration policy....the rate of crime from certain groups is still higher. It's too late for the UK, but what you advocate for Japan kind of suggests you really don't like them. Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Sep 2021 3.46pm) I am not in denial I am just looking at the data. Correlation does not imply causation is not an excuse, it’s a central tenet of statistical logic. Immigration causes crime (direct causation), crime causes immigration (reverse causation), immigration and crime are both caused by something else, immigration causes crime and crime causes immigration (cyclic causation), there is no connection between immigration and crime therefore the correlation is a coincidence. I agree that it is very important to seduce the cause of something before we can seek t change it. As Aristotle wrote, "we do not have knowledge of a thing until we have grasped its why, that is to say, its cause”. Regarding crime figures, they have clearly fallen and they continue to fall. You suggest that the methods of collecting and interpreting data have changed. That may well be true but there is no date available that shows crime rising. [Link] In relation to homicide. This link shows that homicide has been falling since all records began. [Link] In the UK in 2017 the last year for which complete data is available there were 355 homicides. In 1990 there were 614 homicides, in 1995 there were 574 homicides, in 2000 there were 466 homicides and in 2010 there were 398 homicides. Out of interest in 2017, the 355 homicides compares to 2,678 road deaths, 5,777 suicides and 179,856 cancer deaths.
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kuge

Peckham 13 Sep 21 4.47pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Still in denial it seems.

How statistics are gathered has changed...Also I think you're referring to 'crime surveys' rather than Police statistics which increases since 2014. Crime surveys are flawed....for example, half of all knife crime happens in London, so a national crime survey isn't going to reflect the concerns there because outside of cities it's less common.

Unfortunately for your contention, crimes like homicides can't be mucked around with and the pretense clearly fails. Go and look at the historical data for England and Wales from say 1940, note the population size and then compare it to now.

Also the 'correlation does not imply causation' excuse doesn't work because it happens pretty much in every region hit by high immigration. Also the higher crime rate follows certain groups around independent of the country they reside in.

Indeed, even when you filter...which is a far more sensible immigration policy....the rate of crime from certain groups is still higher.

It's too late for the UK, but what you advocate for Japan kind of suggests you really don't like them.

Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Sep 2021 3.46pm)

I am not in denial I am just looking at the data.

Correlation does not imply causation is not an excuse, it’s a central tenet of statistical logic.

Immigration causes crime (direct causation), crime causes immigration (reverse causation), immigration and crime are both caused by something else, immigration causes crime and crime causes immigration (cyclic causation), there is no connection between immigration and crime therefore the correlation is a coincidence.

I agree that it is very important to seduce the cause of something before we can seek t change it.
As Aristotle wrote, "we do not have knowledge of a thing until we have grasped its why, that is to say, its cause”.

Regarding crime figures, they have clearly fallen and they continue to fall.
You suggest that the methods of collecting and interpreting data have changed.
That may well be true but there is no date available that shows crime rising.

[Link]

In relation to homicide.

This link shows that homicide has been falling since all records began.

[Link]

In the UK in 2017 the last year for which complete data is available there were 355 homicides.
In 1990 there were 614 homicides, in 1995 there were 574 homicides, in 2000 there were 466 homicides and in 2010 there were 398 homicides.

Out of interest in 2017, the 355 homicides compares to 2,678 road deaths, 5,777 suicides and 179,856 cancer deaths.

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PalazioVecchio south pole 13 Sep 21 4.54pm
towns with much immigrants have much crime. Cheam has few immigrants and little crime. Leicester & Birmingham top the crime tables. [Link] Edited by PalazioVecchio (13 Sep 2021 5.03pm) Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford
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PalazioVecchio

south pole 13 Sep 21 4.54pm

towns with much immigrants have much crime.

Cheam has few immigrants and little crime.

Leicester & Birmingham top the crime tables.

[Link]

Edited by PalazioVecchio (13 Sep 2021 5.03pm)

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

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kuge Peckham 13 Sep 21 5.06pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays It's too late for the UK, but what you advocate for Japan kind of suggests you really don't like them. Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Sep 2021 3.46pm) Just to be clear I love Japan. I love the people, the culture, the food and the language. In general the Japanese tend to be rather xenophobic. And as is not uncommon they are most antagonistic towards Koreans, the people that are culturally closest to them. Westerners are generally admired but there is an underlying sense that they also find western attitudes rather coarse. There is, however, a growing realisation especially amongst the young who are facing an enormous tax burden to support an ageing population, that without immigration the country will cease to function. Without immigration, in 60 years the country will be near enough empty. If you want to look at some really frightening data check out the birth rate in Japan. The population has been falling since 2015 and nothing other than immigration will arrest this. [Link]
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kuge

Peckham 13 Sep 21 5.06pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

It's too late for the UK, but what you advocate for Japan kind of suggests you really don't like them.

Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Sep 2021 3.46pm)

Just to be clear I love Japan. I love the people, the culture, the food and the language. In general the Japanese tend to be rather xenophobic. And as is not uncommon they are most antagonistic towards Koreans, the people that are culturally closest to them. Westerners are generally admired but there is an underlying sense that they also find western attitudes rather coarse.

There is, however, a growing realisation especially amongst the young who are facing an enormous tax burden to support an ageing population, that without immigration the country will cease to function.

Without immigration, in 60 years the country will be near enough empty. If you want to look at some really frightening data check out the birth rate in Japan. The population has been falling since 2015 and nothing other than immigration will arrest this.

[Link]

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kuge Peckham 13 Sep 21 5.11pm
Originally posted by PalazioVecchio towns with much immigrants have much crime. Cheam has few immigrants and little crime. Leicester & Birmingham top the crime tables. [Link] Edited by PalazioVecchio (13 Sep 2021 5.03pm) 'much immigrants'? This idiotic, I mean 'bear and woods' type of thinking. Of course, there are high rates of crime in poor areas with a lack of investment.
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kuge

Peckham 13 Sep 21 5.11pm

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

towns with much immigrants have much crime.

Cheam has few immigrants and little crime.

Leicester & Birmingham top the crime tables.

[Link]

Edited by PalazioVecchio (13 Sep 2021 5.03pm)

'much immigrants'?

This idiotic, I mean 'bear and woods' type of thinking. Of course, there are high rates of crime in poor areas with a lack of investment.

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DanH SW2 13 Sep 21 5.13pm
Originally posted by kuge I am not in denial I am just looking at the data. Correlation does not imply causation is not an excuse, it’s a central tenet of statistical logic. Immigration causes crime (direct causation), crime causes immigration (reverse causation), immigration and crime are both caused by something else, immigration causes crime and crime causes immigration (cyclic causation), there is no connection between immigration and crime therefore the correlation is a coincidence. I agree that it is very important to seduce the cause of something before we can seek t change it. As Aristotle wrote, "we do not have knowledge of a thing until we have grasped its why, that is to say, its cause”. Regarding crime figures, they have clearly fallen and they continue to fall. You suggest that the methods of collecting and interpreting data have changed. That may well be true but there is no date available that shows crime rising. [Link] In relation to homicide. This link shows that homicide has been falling since all records began. [Link] In the UK in 2017 the last year for which complete data is available there were 355 homicides. In 1990 there were 614 homicides, in 1995 there were 574 homicides, in 2000 there were 466 homicides and in 2010 there were 398 homicides. Out of interest in 2017, the 355 homicides compares to 2,678 road deaths, 5,777 suicides and 179,856 cancer deaths. As someone with an economics background, Stirling's understanding and use of statistics to try and support his arguments makes me want to weep. There's no point though - he's a lost cause. There will always be something he tries to use to shoehorn in to fit his ideology no matter how tenuous or statistically illiterate.
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DanH

SW2 13 Sep 21 5.13pm

Originally posted by kuge

I am not in denial I am just looking at the data.

Correlation does not imply causation is not an excuse, it’s a central tenet of statistical logic.

[Link]

In relation to homicide.

This link shows that homicide has been falling since all records began.

[Link]

Out of interest in 2017, the 355 homicides compares to 2,678 road deaths, 5,777 suicides and 179,856 cancer deaths.

As someone with an economics background, Stirling's understanding and use of statistics to try and support his arguments makes me want to weep.

There's no point though - he's a lost cause. There will always be something he tries to use to shoehorn in to fit his ideology no matter how tenuous or statistically illiterate.

Alert a moderator to this post

Hrolf The Ganger 13 Sep 21 5.13pm
Originally posted by kuge I am not in denial I am just looking at the data. Correlation does not imply causation is not an excuse, it’s a central tenet of statistical logic. Immigration causes crime (direct causation), crime causes immigration (reverse causation), immigration and crime are both caused by something else, immigration causes crime and crime causes immigration (cyclic causation), there is no connection between immigration and crime therefore the correlation is a coincidence. I agree that it is very important to seduce the cause of something before we can seek t change it. As Aristotle wrote, "we do not have knowledge of a thing until we have grasped its why, that is to say, its cause”. Regarding crime figures, they have clearly fallen and they continue to fall. You suggest that the methods of collecting and interpreting data have changed. That may well be true but there is no date available that shows crime rising. [Link] In relation to homicide. This link shows that homicide has been falling since all records began. [Link] In the UK in 2017 the last year for which complete data is available there were 355 homicides. In 1990 there were 614 homicides, in 1995 there were 574 homicides, in 2000 there were 466 homicides and in 2010 there were 398 homicides. Out of interest in 2017, the 355 homicides compares to 2,678 road deaths, 5,777 suicides and 179,856 cancer deaths. So you are just ignoring the official government statistics since 1898 that I provided. What a surprise. You are picking and choosing what suits your agenda, like all you apologists do.
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Hrolf The Ganger

13 Sep 21 5.13pm

Originally posted by kuge

I am not in denial I am just looking at the data.

Correlation does not imply causation is not an excuse, it’s a central tenet of statistical logic.

[Link]

In relation to homicide.

This link shows that homicide has been falling since all records began.

[Link]

Out of interest in 2017, the 355 homicides compares to 2,678 road deaths, 5,777 suicides and 179,856 cancer deaths.

So you are just ignoring the official government statistics since 1898 that I provided.

What a surprise.

You are picking and choosing what suits your agenda, like all you apologists do.

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Stirlingsays 13 Sep 21 5.14pm
Originally posted by kuge I am not in denial I am just looking at the data. Correlation does not imply causation is not an excuse, it’s a central tenet of statistical logic. Immigration causes crime (direct causation), crime causes immigration (reverse causation), immigration and crime are both caused by something else, immigration causes crime and crime causes immigration (cyclic causation), there is no connection between immigration and crime therefore the correlation is a coincidence. I agree that it is very important to seduce the cause of something before we can seek t change it. As Aristotle wrote, "we do not have knowledge of a thing until we have grasped its why, that is to say, its cause”. Regarding crime figures, they have clearly fallen and they continue to fall. You suggest that the methods of collecting and interpreting data have changed. That may well be true but there is no date available that shows crime rising. [Link] In relation to homicide. This link shows that homicide has been falling since all records began. [Link] In the UK in 2017 the last year for which complete data is available there were 355 homicides. In 1990 there were 614 homicides, in 1995 there were 574 homicides, in 2000 there were 466 homicides and in 2010 there were 398 homicides. Out of interest in 2017, the 355 homicides compares to 2,678 road deaths, 5,777 suicides and 179,856 cancer deaths. The statistics are there provided from the home office on homicides and it can't be faked unlike other stats. They go back to 1898.....it can be deliberately shown so that a comparison can be made pre and post immigration. Yet you don't address the statistics that prove a considerable increase in murder rates since the first wave of immigrants grew into adults with its mostly increases to this day......considerably higher rates than the population. These relative increases will also show the same for other violent crime. It's not just the immigration importation of significantly different cultures, it's social liberalism on families (family breakup/missing fathers) and I suspect that increases in wealth inequality also plays a role....though the stats show different rates for different groups there also and that's even controlled for wealth if you bother to look. Also I have to say, your waffle over causation doesn't hide the fact that often correlation is the cause. That fallacy is there only as a correct ballast against faulty assumptions. It is not there to dismiss the obvious. The evidence is so overwhelmingly against you that it just comes across as a leftist defending the ideology because you know that your fellow denialists are watching. Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Sep 2021 5.16pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

13 Sep 21 5.14pm

Originally posted by kuge

I am not in denial I am just looking at the data.

Correlation does not imply causation is not an excuse, it’s a central tenet of statistical logic.

[Link]

In relation to homicide.

This link shows that homicide has been falling since all records began.

[Link]

Out of interest in 2017, the 355 homicides compares to 2,678 road deaths, 5,777 suicides and 179,856 cancer deaths.

The statistics are there provided from the home office on homicides and it can't be faked unlike other stats.

They go back to 1898.....it can be deliberately shown so that a comparison can be made pre and post immigration.

Yet you don't address the statistics that prove a considerable increase in murder rates since the first wave of immigrants grew into adults with its mostly increases to this day......considerably higher rates than the population. These relative increases will also show the same for other violent crime.

It's not just the immigration importation of significantly different cultures, it's social liberalism on families (family breakup/missing fathers) and I suspect that increases in wealth inequality also plays a role....though the stats show different rates for different groups there also and that's even controlled for wealth if you bother to look.

Also I have to say, your waffle over causation doesn't hide the fact that often correlation is the cause. That fallacy is there only as a correct ballast against faulty assumptions. It is not there to dismiss the obvious.

The evidence is so overwhelmingly against you that it just comes across as a leftist defending the ideology because you know that your fellow denialists are watching.

Edited by Stirlingsays (13 Sep 2021 5.16pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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