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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 06 Jul 17 4.57pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Hindsight. After WW1, no one had the stomach for another conflict and we did not rearm. If we had become more militaristic after WW1 and squashed Germany, you revisionists would be saying we were aggressive imperialists. I'm still blaming Hitler for WW2 myself. He's very much to blame, however why sign documents like the Locarno pact and other bilateral treaties promising military action if there was never any intention of honouring those deterrents? It's a bit like today's arguments over trident. A quote from Shirer: "Chamberlain's stubborn, fanatical insistence on giving Hitler what he wanted, his trips to Berchtesgaden and Godesburg and finally the fateful journey to Munich rescued Hitler from his limb and strengthened his position in Europe, in Germany, in the Army, beyond anything that could have been imagined a few weeks before. It also added immeasurably to the power of the Third Reich." German generals plotted to arrest and overthrow Hitler before the planned invasion of Czechoslovakia and tried to get the UK government to promise that they would come to the Czech's aid as the means for a justification to the German public. Churchill and others tried to see that this happened, but Chamberlain, his advisers and cabinet decided to do a deal instead.
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hedgehog50 Croydon 06 Jul 17 5.06pm | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
He's very much to blame, however why sign documents like the Locarno pact and other bilateral treaties promising military action if there was never any intention of honouring those deterrents? It's a bit like today's arguments over trident. A quote from Shirer: "Chamberlain's stubborn, fanatical insistence on giving Hitler what he wanted, his trips to Berchtesgaden and Godesburg and finally the fateful journey to Munich rescued Hitler from his limb and strengthened his position in Europe, in Germany, in the Army, beyond anything that could have been imagined a few weeks before. It also added immeasurably to the power of the Third Reich." German generals plotted to arrest and overthrow Hitler before the planned invasion of Czechoslovakia and tried to get the UK government to promise that they would come to the Czech's aid as the means for a justification to the German public. Churchill and others tried to see that this happened, but Chamberlain, his advisers and cabinet decided to do a deal instead.
Of course Labour party stalwarts Sidney and Beatrice Webb continued to support and praise Stalin throughout the 1920s and 30s along with most of the rest of the left, when evidence of his tyranny was staring them in the face.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 06 Jul 17 5.12pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Once the Bomb was invented, conventional warfare was off the table between the big players. Pretty much. As horrific as the bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima were, the cost in lives of a land invasion of Japan, would have been worse, both for Japan and the US. The Puple Heart medals that the US produced in planning for the Japanese Invasion, were finally exhausted during the Afghanistan war, around 2007-8. They expected to lose at least 1m troops in a land invasion of Japan. A war between the UK, US against Russia, at the end of WWII would have almost certainly become nuclear, which with the benefit of hindsight, would have been a disaster for Europe, already badly f**ked by the conventional war. Its also would have been the economic death of the UK, Russia and the US.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 06 Jul 17 5.14pm | |
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Oh the irony of the right wingers discussing how we beat the fascists.
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hedgehog50 Croydon 06 Jul 17 5.18pm | |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Oh the irony of the right wingers discussing how we beat the fascists. So what are you suggesting, you crypto-communist, that anyone to the right of you in political views is a fascist? Edited by hedgehog50 (06 Jul 2017 5.18pm)
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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pefwin Where you have to have an English ... 06 Jul 17 5.55pm | |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
So what are you suggesting, you crypto-communist, that anyone to the right of you in political views is a fascist? Edited by hedgehog50 (06 Jul 2017 5.18pm) I doubt it, I expect the parties start with Labour than a fascist, but the point is so correct and funny. I expect that you need to be friendly with a bunch of sticks to react to the comment.
"Everything is air-droppable at least once." "When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support." |
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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 06 Jul 17 7.40pm | |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
So what are you suggesting, you crypto-communist, that anyone to the right of you in political views is a fascist? Edited by hedgehog50 (06 Jul 2017 5.18pm) No, I'm suggesting that anyone fascist is fascist (like Brexit means Brexit if you want clarity) and these seem to be the sort (yes I accept I'm generalising a bit I know) that go on about how we defeated the Nazis . Edited by nickgusset (06 Jul 2017 7.51pm)
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Mr_Gristle In the land of Whelk Eaters 06 Jul 17 7.43pm | |
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Briefly on topic. If May had been GROFAZ, the likes of Messerschmitt, Henschel, Krupp, MAN and Opel would have long since been bought out by semi subsidised entities from strategic rival nations and the Molotov / Johnson pact would have ceded all territory east of Hannover to Stalin. A confidence & supply deal with Moseley and the Croatian Ustasha would have been agreed to boot. :-) Edited by Mr_Gristle (06 Jul 2017 7.46pm) Edited by Mr_Gristle (06 Jul 2017 7.48pm)
Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune) |
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hedgehog50 Croydon 06 Jul 17 10.10pm | |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
No, I'm suggesting that anyone fascist is fascist (like Brexit means Brexit if you want clarity) and these seem to be the sort (yes I accept I'm generalising a bit I know) that go on about how we defeated the Nazis . Edited by nickgusset (06 Jul 2017 7.51pm) What like anyone communist is communist you mean. The British, Commonwealth, American and Russian people defeated the Nazis - people with all sorts of politics - Enoch Powell provided good service in the war, no doubt you regard him as a fascist.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 06 Jul 17 10.52pm | |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
What like anyone communist is communist you mean. The British, Commonwealth, American and Russian people defeated the Nazis - people with all sorts of politics - Enoch Powell provided good service in the war, no doubt you regard him as a fascist. No doubt. But quasi fascists celebrating beating fascists...
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elgrande bedford 06 Jul 17 11.16pm | |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
No doubt. But quasi fascists celebrating beating fascists... So you are saying anyone who is a bit right wing is a fascist....,so there fore anyone who are left wing are communists.
always a Norwood boy, where ever I live. |
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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 07 Jul 17 12.17am | |
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Originally posted by elgrande
So you are saying anyone who is a bit right wing is a fascist....,so there fore anyone who are left wing are communists. No. But that's not to say some tick more boxes than others.
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