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Labour Leadership - Bald men fighting over a comb?

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sitdownstandup Flag 12 Sep 15 11.59pm Send a Private Message to sitdownstandup Add sitdownstandup as a friend

Quote Kermit8 at 12 Sep 2015 8.33pm

A huge amount of voters both left and right will agree with a lot of what he says and plans to do but they will also be too wary/scared to vote for him unless there is a massive media swell of positivity behind him. Which won't happen, of course. Pity.


He was very critical of the media in his opening speech which I thought was surprising and this, strangely, might be a vote winner, as people will see that he's a man not afraid to speak his mind and is more straight talking than most politicians. The media may not be as powerful as it once was as social media gains power and prominence and this may work in his favour.

 


Man is the most insane species. He worships an invisible God and destroys a visible Nature. Unaware that this Nature he’s destroying is this God he’s worshipping.

Hubert Reeves

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Hoof Hearted 13 Sep 15 9.55am

Quote Anerley-Fried-Eagle at 12 Sep 2015 12.27pm

Great result.

Borris "bozo" johnsons removal next on the political landscspe.

The futures looking brighter than it did an hour ago.

Great Result for the Tories

Boris is standing down, but he won't be replaced by the Labour Muslim candidate.

The future is indeed looking brighter.... absolutely no chance of a Labour victory at the polls for the foreseeable future!

 

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leggedstruggle Flag Croydon 13 Sep 15 10.01am

Quote Kermit8 at 12 Sep 2015 8.33pm

A huge amount of voters both left and right will agree with a lot of what he says and plans to do but they will also be too wary/scared to vote for him unless there is a massive media swell of positivity behind him. Which won't happen, of course. Pity.

Really, why didn't they vote TUSC in last election then? Love the bit about 'and right' by the way.

 


mother-in-law is an anagram of woman hitler

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Hoof Hearted 13 Sep 15 10.04am

Quote matt_himself at 12 Sep 2015 6.59pm

Quote serial thriller at 12 Sep 2015 6.25pm

Minutes after his victory, Corbyn said the message is that people are “fed up with the injustice and the inequality” of Britain.

A very simple point, but one it's incredibly hard to argue with.


It's just a sound bite that means nothing and is swallowed by morons as heralding a new, golden age.

I can't wait to see what the next 99 days of his leadership bring...


Indeed Matt... reminds me of Blair's triumphal entry to number 10 with "Things can only get better" blasting out.... lets wait for the sh1t storm!

 

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Percy of Peckham Flag Eton Mess 13 Sep 15 10.43am Send a Private Message to Percy of Peckham Add Percy of Peckham as a friend

Quote matt_himself at 12 Sep 2015 6.59pm

Quote serial thriller at 12 Sep 2015 6.25pm

Minutes after his victory, Corbyn said the message is that people are “fed up with the injustice and the inequality” of Britain.

A very simple point, but one it's incredibly hard to argue with.


It's just a sound bite that means nothing and is swallowed by morons as heralding a new, golden age.

I can't wait to see what the next 99 days of his leadership bring...


Not sure anyone has heralded a new golden age ...it was more about upholding traditional values. How these are going to be relevant to Britain in 2015 and beyond, however, remain to be seen.

 


Denial is not just a river in Egypt!

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Hoof Hearted 13 Sep 15 12.52pm

Quote leggedstruggle at 12 Sep 2015 11.50pm

The Labour party is going to end up like all the far left parties with endless splits and splinter groups - New Labour, Old Labour, Real Labour, Provisional Labour, Peoples' Labour, Non-person's Labour, Gay Labour, Islamic Labour, Black Labour, Social Democratic Labour, Menshevik Labour, Bolshevik Labour, etc. Should be entertaining though.


The People's Front of Labour..... The Labour Peoples Front....

Splitter!

 

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serial thriller Flag The Promised Land 13 Sep 15 1.01pm Send a Private Message to serial thriller Add serial thriller as a friend

Quote matt_himself at 12 Sep 2015 8.08pm

Quote ChuFukka at 12 Sep 2015 7.53pm

Quote serial thriller at 12 Sep 2015 7.49pm

Quote matt_himself at 12 Sep 2015 6.59pm

Quote serial thriller at 12 Sep 2015 6.25pm

Minutes after his victory, Corbyn said the message is that people are “fed up with the injustice and the inequality” of Britain.

A very simple point, but one it's incredibly hard to argue with.


It's just a sound bite that means nothing and is swallowed by morons as heralding a new, golden age.

I can't wait to see what the next 99 days of his leadership bring...


I think it's salient because the UK is supposedly in a period of economic growth, unlike in Spain or Greece where similar movements have gathered pace, and I think the reason behind it is because many people, especially the young, do regard the country as unequal (which it of course is, massively) and unjust. Regardless of your political standpoint, this is a massive moment in British politics and one that came completely out of the blue. I think Corbyn's right as to where this discontent is coming from.

It would be a mistake to overstate the strength of this result though; to quote some guy on the BBS:

251,000 people felt shaken up enough to vote for him out of the 9,347,000 people who voted Labour in the last election. How many of those votes were mischievous will never be known either.

Basically, he's won the already converted. Time will tell whether he can go one better.

In his head 'it's massive'. Let him think that. It will soon all be revealed for what it is.


It is massive. It's possibly the biggest surprise in British politics since Attlee won in 45. We now have the leader of the opposition, voted in with an unprecedented mandate, putting forward a political position which hasn't been seen in decades. Why you feel the need to patronise me I don't know, I'm trying to engage in an intellectual discussion here, but oh well.

As for your point Chu, the important point about the number who voted Corbyn is that they are all now members of the Labour party, thus are active political agents. Labour has more than doubled its membership, meaning it's around 5/6 times greater than that of the Tories, and is back to levels no political party has seen in 30 years. Granted, these people don't guarantee him the number of votes needed to win an election, but what it means is that Labour's work force, required to leaflet, canvas, donate and drive their campaign, will be far greater. There are a lot of similarities between this and Obama's campaign for Presidency in 2008, where he relied on a large mobilisation of activists and supporters, which the Republican campaign ultimately couldn't cope with. It's not really right to view it as winning over the converted; more like unifying and mobilising the previously disparate groups who shared his political views.

Let's not forget too, Corbyn not only won over the £3 new members, he actually won more votes among longstanding Labour party members than his opponents. Yesterday's result, regardless of your political perspective, was emphatically significant.

 


If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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matt_himself Flag Matataland 13 Sep 15 1.13pm Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Quote serial thriller at 13 Sep 2015 1.01pm

Quote matt_himself at 12 Sep 2015 8.08pm

Quote ChuFukka at 12 Sep 2015 7.53pm

Quote serial thriller at 12 Sep 2015 7.49pm

Quote matt_himself at 12 Sep 2015 6.59pm

Quote serial thriller at 12 Sep 2015 6.25pm

Minutes after his victory, Corbyn said the message is that people are “fed up with the injustice and the inequality” of Britain.

A very simple point, but one it's incredibly hard to argue with.


It's just a sound bite that means nothing and is swallowed by morons as heralding a new, golden age.

I can't wait to see what the next 99 days of his leadership bring...


I think it's salient because the UK is supposedly in a period of economic growth, unlike in Spain or Greece where similar movements have gathered pace, and I think the reason behind it is because many people, especially the young, do regard the country as unequal (which it of course is, massively) and unjust. Regardless of your political standpoint, this is a massive moment in British politics and one that came completely out of the blue. I think Corbyn's right as to where this discontent is coming from.

It would be a mistake to overstate the strength of this result though; to quote some guy on the BBS:

251,000 people felt shaken up enough to vote for him out of the 9,347,000 people who voted Labour in the last election. How many of those votes were mischievous will never be known either.

Basically, he's won the already converted. Time will tell whether he can go one better.

In his head 'it's massive'. Let him think that. It will soon all be revealed for what it is.


It is massive. It's possibly the biggest surprise in British politics since Attlee won in 45. We now have the leader of the opposition, voted in with an unprecedented mandate, putting forward a political position which hasn't been seen in decades. Why you feel the need to patronise me I don't know, I'm trying to engage in an intellectual discussion here, but oh well.

As for your point Chu, the important point about the number who voted Corbyn is that they are all now members of the Labour party, thus are active political agents. Labour has more than doubled its membership, meaning it's around 5/6 times greater than that of the Tories, and is back to levels no political party has seen in 30 years. Granted, these people don't guarantee him the number of votes needed to win an election, but what it means is that Labour's work force, required to leaflet, canvas, donate and drive their campaign, will be far greater. There are a lot of similarities between this and Obama's campaign for Presidency in 2008, where he relied on a large mobilisation of activists and supporters, which the Republican campaign ultimately couldn't cope with. It's not really right to view it as winning over the converted; more like unifying and mobilising the previously disparate groups who shared his political views.

Let's not forget too, Corbyn not only won over the £3 new members, he actually won more votes among longstanding Labour party members than his opponents. Yesterday's result, regardless of your political perspective, was emphatically significant.


 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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Hoof Hearted 13 Sep 15 1.15pm

Quote serial thriller at 13 Sep 2015 1.01pm

Quote matt_himself at 12 Sep 2015 8.08pm

Quote ChuFukka at 12 Sep 2015 7.53pm

Quote serial thriller at 12 Sep 2015 7.49pm

Quote matt_himself at 12 Sep 2015 6.59pm

Quote serial thriller at 12 Sep 2015 6.25pm

Minutes after his victory, Corbyn said the message is that people are “fed up with the injustice and the inequality” of Britain.

A very simple point, but one it's incredibly hard to argue with.


It's just a sound bite that means nothing and is swallowed by morons as heralding a new, golden age.

I can't wait to see what the next 99 days of his leadership bring...


I think it's salient because the UK is supposedly in a period of economic growth, unlike in Spain or Greece where similar movements have gathered pace, and I think the reason behind it is because many people, especially the young, do regard the country as unequal (which it of course is, massively) and unjust. Regardless of your political standpoint, this is a massive moment in British politics and one that came completely out of the blue. I think Corbyn's right as to where this discontent is coming from.

It would be a mistake to overstate the strength of this result though; to quote some guy on the BBS:

251,000 people felt shaken up enough to vote for him out of the 9,347,000 people who voted Labour in the last election. How many of those votes were mischievous will never be known either.

Basically, he's won the already converted. Time will tell whether he can go one better.

In his head 'it's massive'. Let him think that. It will soon all be revealed for what it is.


It is massive. It's possibly the biggest surprise in British politics since Attlee won in 45. We now have the leader of the opposition, voted in with an unprecedented mandate, putting forward a political position which hasn't been seen in decades. Why you feel the need to patronise me I don't know, I'm trying to engage in an intellectual discussion here, but oh well.

As for your point Chu, the important point about the number who voted Corbyn is that they are all now members of the Labour party, thus are active political agents. Labour has more than doubled its membership, meaning it's around 5/6 times greater than that of the Tories, and is back to levels no political party has seen in 30 years. Granted, these people don't guarantee him the number of votes needed to win an election, but what it means is that Labour's work force, required to leaflet, canvas, donate and drive their campaign, will be far greater. There are a lot of similarities between this and Obama's campaign for Presidency in 2008, where he relied on a large mobilisation of activists and supporters, which the Republican campaign ultimately couldn't cope with. It's not really right to view it as winning over the converted; more like unifying and mobilising the previously disparate groups who shared his political views.

Let's not forget too, Corbyn not only won over the £3 new members, he actually won more votes among longstanding Labour party members than his opponents. Yesterday's result, regardless of your political perspective, was emphatically significant.


Elections are won by votes from people that overwhelmingly are not members of any political party. They tend to vote for credible leaders - the following list were spectacularly non-credible leaders of Labour that led to disastrous election campaigns:-

Kinnock, Foot, Brown, Miliband (double whammy paired with Balls)..... now Corbyn

Only a fool would be encouraged by yesterday's leadership result... it will end in tears for the Labour Party... mark my words.

 

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serial thriller Flag The Promised Land 13 Sep 15 1.26pm Send a Private Message to serial thriller Add serial thriller as a friend

Quote Hoof Hearted at 13 Sep 2015 1.15pm

Quote serial thriller at 13 Sep 2015 1.01pm

Quote matt_himself at 12 Sep 2015 8.08pm

Quote ChuFukka at 12 Sep 2015 7.53pm

Quote serial thriller at 12 Sep 2015 7.49pm

Quote matt_himself at 12 Sep 2015 6.59pm

Quote serial thriller at 12 Sep 2015 6.25pm

Minutes after his victory, Corbyn said the message is that people are “fed up with the injustice and the inequality” of Britain.

A very simple point, but one it's incredibly hard to argue with.


It's just a sound bite that means nothing and is swallowed by morons as heralding a new, golden age.

I can't wait to see what the next 99 days of his leadership bring...


I think it's salient because the UK is supposedly in a period of economic growth, unlike in Spain or Greece where similar movements have gathered pace, and I think the reason behind it is because many people, especially the young, do regard the country as unequal (which it of course is, massively) and unjust. Regardless of your political standpoint, this is a massive moment in British politics and one that came completely out of the blue. I think Corbyn's right as to where this discontent is coming from.

It would be a mistake to overstate the strength of this result though; to quote some guy on the BBS:

251,000 people felt shaken up enough to vote for him out of the 9,347,000 people who voted Labour in the last election. How many of those votes were mischievous will never be known either.

Basically, he's won the already converted. Time will tell whether he can go one better.

In his head 'it's massive'. Let him think that. It will soon all be revealed for what it is.


It is massive. It's possibly the biggest surprise in British politics since Attlee won in 45. We now have the leader of the opposition, voted in with an unprecedented mandate, putting forward a political position which hasn't been seen in decades. Why you feel the need to patronise me I don't know, I'm trying to engage in an intellectual discussion here, but oh well.

As for your point Chu, the important point about the number who voted Corbyn is that they are all now members of the Labour party, thus are active political agents. Labour has more than doubled its membership, meaning it's around 5/6 times greater than that of the Tories, and is back to levels no political party has seen in 30 years. Granted, these people don't guarantee him the number of votes needed to win an election, but what it means is that Labour's work force, required to leaflet, canvas, donate and drive their campaign, will be far greater. There are a lot of similarities between this and Obama's campaign for Presidency in 2008, where he relied on a large mobilisation of activists and supporters, which the Republican campaign ultimately couldn't cope with. It's not really right to view it as winning over the converted; more like unifying and mobilising the previously disparate groups who shared his political views.

Let's not forget too, Corbyn not only won over the £3 new members, he actually won more votes among longstanding Labour party members than his opponents. Yesterday's result, regardless of your political perspective, was emphatically significant.


Elections are won by votes from people that overwhelmingly are not members of any political party. They tend to vote for credible leaders - the following list were spectacularly non-credible leaders of Labour that led to disastrous election campaigns:-

Kinnock, Foot, Brown, Miliband (double whammy paired with Balls)..... now Corbyn

Only a fool would be encouraged by yesterday's leadership result... it will end in tears for the Labour Party... mark my words.


But membership is massively important. UKIP's rise to hold the highest number of MEPs would never have happened without the surge in membership they gained a few years ago. The SNP gaining nearly every seat in Scotland was triggered by a mass mobilisation of activists around the referendum. The Labour party itself was born out of a desire for parliamentary recognition by the Trade Union movement, and thus its successes (Attlee, Wilson, even Blair) have all had to rely on strong membership support (under Blair, membership nearly hit 500000 having been at half of that under Kinnock).

In fact your point about leaders only proves this point. Labour lost in 83 because of a split in party membership between them and the SDP, under Milliband it nudged 200000 but that's nothing really. As for being credible, well Attlee was seen as credible in 45, Wilson was seen as credible in 74, and their manifestos were to the left of anything that's come out of the Corbyn camp so far. Interesting times.

 


If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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ChuFukka Flag 13 Sep 15 1.52pm Send a Private Message to ChuFukka Add ChuFukka as a friend

Quote serial thriller at 13 Sep 2015 1.01pm

Quote matt_himself at 12 Sep 2015 8.08pm

Quote ChuFukka at 12 Sep 2015 7.53pm

Quote serial thriller at 12 Sep 2015 7.49pm

Quote matt_himself at 12 Sep 2015 6.59pm

Quote serial thriller at 12 Sep 2015 6.25pm

Minutes after his victory, Corbyn said the message is that people are “fed up with the injustice and the inequality” of Britain.

A very simple point, but one it's incredibly hard to argue with.


It's just a sound bite that means nothing and is swallowed by morons as heralding a new, golden age.

I can't wait to see what the next 99 days of his leadership bring...


I think it's salient because the UK is supposedly in a period of economic growth, unlike in Spain or Greece where similar movements have gathered pace, and I think the reason behind it is because many people, especially the young, do regard the country as unequal (which it of course is, massively) and unjust. Regardless of your political standpoint, this is a massive moment in British politics and one that came completely out of the blue. I think Corbyn's right as to where this discontent is coming from.

It would be a mistake to overstate the strength of this result though; to quote some guy on the BBS:

251,000 people felt shaken up enough to vote for him out of the 9,347,000 people who voted Labour in the last election. How many of those votes were mischievous will never be known either.

Basically, he's won the already converted. Time will tell whether he can go one better.

In his head 'it's massive'. Let him think that. It will soon all be revealed for what it is.


It is massive. It's possibly the biggest surprise in British politics since Attlee won in 45. We now have the leader of the opposition, voted in with an unprecedented mandate, putting forward a political position which hasn't been seen in decades. Why you feel the need to patronise me I don't know, I'm trying to engage in an intellectual discussion here, but oh well.

As for your point Chu, the important point about the number who voted Corbyn is that they are all now members of the Labour party, thus are active political agents. Labour has more than doubled its membership, meaning it's around 5/6 times greater than that of the Tories, and is back to levels no political party has seen in 30 years. Granted, these people don't guarantee him the number of votes needed to win an election, but what it means is that Labour's work force, required to leaflet, canvas, donate and drive their campaign, will be far greater. There are a lot of similarities between this and Obama's campaign for Presidency in 2008, where he relied on a large mobilisation of activists and supporters, which the Republican campaign ultimately couldn't cope with. It's not really right to view it as winning over the converted; more like unifying and mobilising the previously disparate groups who shared his political views.

Let's not forget too, Corbyn not only won over the £3 new members, he actually won more votes among longstanding Labour party members than his opponents. Yesterday's result, regardless of your political perspective, was emphatically significant.


You absolutely have a point in saying that - assuming the party can mobilise their troops - the sheer number of members will give them an advantage going into 2020; however, as I think I posted a little earlier, there are so many factors going against Corbyn that he will have a mountain to climb.

Whilst the Obama comparison isn't inappropriate, you have to remember that the American electorate were historically much more receptive to Obama's 2008 platform (which was very mainstream really and came in the midst of great discontent) than many in the UK are to JC. If Bernie Sanders could pull of a shock victory over Hillary and win the Democratic nomination, that would be a far more apt comparison.

 

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serial thriller Flag The Promised Land 13 Sep 15 2.08pm Send a Private Message to serial thriller Add serial thriller as a friend

One more point: this is a momentous result beyond Britain's borders because you now have a major party leader whose foreign policy will probably not involve war, arms supplying and economic exploitation.

I am not a Labour party member, and am undecided as to whether I'll vote Corbyn should he remain leader in 2020. But this to me is his greatest virtue.

I'm in Turkey at the moment and I've spoken to loads of people from across the Middle East, and the overriding opinion among even the more Westernised middle classes is that Britain is a massive cause of disturbance in the region. I spoke to a guy from Yemen, who are being bombed by Saudi Arabia, and the vitriol he poured on Britain for supplying arms to a Wahabist extremist state who have murdered around 20 000 Yemeni in 6 months was so uncharacteristic of someone who was otherwise an incredibly polite, humble man it really made me think.

Likewise, that we will have a leader of the opposition who is openly critical of Israel, who are not only continuing to commit war crimes on the West Bank but are threatening to renew tensions with Iran in the area is massive. Maybe we will even stop supplying weapons and armoury to Qatar, Kuwait and the Saudis for them to channel on to IS?

It's easy to just look at home and regard the effect Corbyn's politics will have, but actually the biggest positive in my mind is that we shift our stance on the global scene.

 


If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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