Is Britain a racist country?

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Is Britain a racist country?

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derben 07 Jun 15 5.53pm
Quote Steptoe at 07 Jun 2015 5.51pm Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 5.49pm Quote Steptoe at 07 Jun 2015 5.41pm Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 5.39pm Quote Steptoe at 07 Jun 2015 5.34pm Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 5.23pm Quote Steptoe at 07 Jun 2015 5.16pm Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 5.11pm Quote Steptoe at 07 Jun 2015 5.05pm Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 4.59pm Quote Steptoe at 07 Jun 2015 4.57pm Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 4.54pm Quote Steptoe at 07 Jun 2015 4.51pm Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 4.49pm Quote Steptoe at 07 Jun 2015 4.45pm Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 4.35pm Quote jamiemartin721 at 07 Jun 2015 4.17pm Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 3.56pm Quote Steptoe at 07 Jun 2015 3.05pm Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 2.15pm "Is there a bias against British workers". Yes, I think there is. Immigrants workers are constantly described as hard working, willing to do jobs that British workers will not, vibrant, etc. Whereas British workers are described as work-shy, benefit scroungers and generally feckless. It is in effect racism towards our own indigenous population. Even using a 'foreign sounding' name on a job application results in less chance of an interview. It's a bit of a laugh to suggest there is a bias in favour of immigrants for jobs. In many case, quite the opposite. Anyway, many state employers, like the NHS, remove from sight the names of applicants from those drawing up shortlists for interviews. Maybe in your mind, but it seems that research in both the US and UK confirms that prejudice (class and racial) plays a role in selection candidates for interview (from Business, Economics, Psychology and Sociological research). The NHS fills from foreign based agencies, some allege because its cheaper than training and using UK staff. If that is true, and is true of employers that happened to be from an ethnic minority, doesn't it just show that people prefer to associate with people of their own race, language, culture and religion? It is the fundamental problem with multi-culturalism, but of course the new left/libs just pretend it is a wonderful rainbow melting pot. You live in a society of different races. Maybe there are whiter, more christian countries you can go to, though of course by your own logic you wouldn't really belong there so would be fine with being treated as a second class citizen. Edited by Steptoe (07 Jun 2015 4.46pm) Not where I live. I don't treat anyone as a second class citizen, I merely prefer to live with people of my own race, language, culture and religion. And if people of different races move into your area then what? At a certain point, I would move elsewhere. I think being able to adapt is a strength and that to dramatically overplay the relevance of skin colour is racist and very unfortunate. At least you are honest about your views though. Some conceal their real motivations. You're honest. That counts for something and cuts to the chase. What's my real motivation then? No, I said some do. People who display essentially the same views as you but fall short of just coming out with what they're all about. You're clearly very honest about your beliefs. My beliefs? All I have said is that I prefer to live with people who are of the same race, language, culture and religion. You seem to want to read into that more than what is stated. Why don't don't you be honest and clearly state what you are perhaps implying? Edited by derben (07 Jun 2015 5.11pm) You stated earlier that if enough people of other races moved to your area you'd leave. You don't need to dress it up as if the other aspects are vital to the equation. I'm not implying anything. I've said that your beliefs are somewhat racist. Beyond that what else is there to say. There's no argument to be had if that's how you feel. I honestly do not see how it is being racist. Most immigrants tend to live in areas where members of their same country of origin, race, language, culture and religion live. Are they being racist? When you buy or rent a home you checkout the area to see if it is the sort of place you want to live, and one of the key factors is the sort of people who live there. As for "you don't need to dress it up as if the other factors are vital", I could put the four factors in any order, race is actually probably the least important, certainly less important than language. I thought I'd chanced upon a rare candid moment. If you'd leave your own home solely based on the race of those moving to your area, that to me seems racist. Anyone acting that way would fall under the same bracket. You're free to think that way though if it makes your life more comfortable. Of course though, we cannot escape race. What if one of your children started dating a black man? Would that suddenly be a big problem for you? Edited by Steptoe (07 Jun 2015 5.35pm) I think it shows just how easily the term 'racist' is now bandied about - it is losing all real meaning. It is just used as a derogatory term for anyone who voices politically incorrect opinions. Those that accuse people of racism on the flimsiest of pretexts are the intolerant ones. If you flee your own home solely because people of other races move into the area it's hardly that 'out there' to call that racist. What other possible justification is there for such a hysterical overreaction to circumstance? Edited by Steptoe (07 Jun 2015 5.42pm) I wouldn't 'flee' my home. I would make a decision as to whether I wanted to live there. I would take many factors into consideration, would house prices be affected? Would educational standards be affected? Would local shops change their character? Would I have to put up with a bloody carnival? Would I have leaflets supporting radical religions thrust into my hands? etc etc. From what you say, if I moved in next door to you, and married your daughter, you would be the one having an 'hysterical overreaction'? Most probably, because I believe in judging people by the content of their character, rather than the colour of their skin. You had a dream did you.
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derben

07 Jun 15 5.53pm

Quote Steptoe at 07 Jun 2015 5.51pm

Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 5.49pm

Quote Steptoe at 07 Jun 2015 5.41pm

Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 5.39pm

Quote Steptoe at 07 Jun 2015 5.34pm

Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 5.23pm

Quote Steptoe at 07 Jun 2015 5.16pm

Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 5.11pm

Quote Steptoe at 07 Jun 2015 5.05pm

Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 4.59pm

Quote Steptoe at 07 Jun 2015 4.57pm

Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 4.54pm

Quote Steptoe at 07 Jun 2015 4.51pm

Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 4.49pm

Quote Steptoe at 07 Jun 2015 4.45pm

Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 4.35pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 07 Jun 2015 4.17pm

Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 3.56pm

Quote Steptoe at 07 Jun 2015 3.05pm

Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 2.15pm

"Is there a bias against British workers". Yes, I think there is. Immigrants workers are constantly described as hard working, willing to do jobs that British workers will not, vibrant, etc. Whereas British workers are described as work-shy, benefit scroungers and generally feckless. It is in effect racism towards our own indigenous population.

Even using a 'foreign sounding' name on a job application results in less chance of an interview. It's a bit of a laugh to suggest there is a bias in favour of immigrants for jobs.

In many case, quite the opposite. Anyway, many state employers, like the NHS, remove from sight the names of applicants from those drawing up shortlists for interviews.

Maybe in your mind, but it seems that research in both the US and UK confirms that prejudice (class and racial) plays a role in selection candidates for interview (from Business, Economics, Psychology and Sociological research).

The NHS fills from foreign based agencies, some allege because its cheaper than training and using UK staff.

If that is true, and is true of employers that happened to be from an ethnic minority, doesn't it just show that people prefer to associate with people of their own race, language, culture and religion? It is the fundamental problem with multi-culturalism, but of course the new left/libs just pretend it is a wonderful rainbow melting pot.

You live in a society of different races. Maybe there are whiter, more christian countries you can go to, though of course by your own logic you wouldn't really belong there so would be fine with being treated as a second class citizen.

Edited by Steptoe (07 Jun 2015 4.46pm)

Not where I live. I don't treat anyone as a second class citizen, I merely prefer to live with people of my own race, language, culture and religion.

And if people of different races move into your area then what?

At a certain point, I would move elsewhere.

I think being able to adapt is a strength and that to dramatically overplay the relevance of skin colour is racist and very unfortunate. At least you are honest about your views though. Some conceal their real motivations. You're honest. That counts for something and cuts to the chase.

What's my real motivation then?

No, I said some do. People who display essentially the same views as you but fall short of just coming out with what they're all about. You're clearly very honest about your beliefs.

My beliefs? All I have said is that I prefer to live with people who are of the same race, language, culture and religion. You seem to want to read into that more than what is stated. Why don't don't you be honest and clearly state what you are perhaps implying?

Edited by derben (07 Jun 2015 5.11pm)

You stated earlier that if enough people of other races moved to your area you'd leave. You don't need to dress it up as if the other aspects are vital to the equation. I'm not implying anything. I've said that your beliefs are somewhat racist. Beyond that what else is there to say. There's no argument to be had if that's how you feel.

I honestly do not see how it is being racist. Most immigrants tend to live in areas where members of their same country of origin, race, language, culture and religion live. Are they being racist? When you buy or rent a home you checkout the area to see if it is the sort of place you want to live, and one of the key factors is the sort of people who live there. As for "you don't need to dress it up as if the other factors are vital", I could put the four factors in any order, race is actually probably the least important, certainly less important than language.

I thought I'd chanced upon a rare candid moment. If you'd leave your own home solely based on the race of those moving to your area, that to me seems racist. Anyone acting that way would fall under the same bracket. You're free to think that way though if it makes your life more comfortable. Of course though, we cannot escape race. What if one of your children started dating a black man? Would that suddenly be a big problem for you?

Edited by Steptoe (07 Jun 2015 5.35pm)

I think it shows just how easily the term 'racist' is now bandied about - it is losing all real meaning. It is just used as a derogatory term for anyone who voices politically incorrect opinions. Those that accuse people of racism on the flimsiest of pretexts are the intolerant ones.

If you flee your own home solely because people of other races move into the area it's hardly that 'out there' to call that racist. What other possible justification is there for such a hysterical overreaction to circumstance?

Edited by Steptoe (07 Jun 2015 5.42pm)

I wouldn't 'flee' my home. I would make a decision as to whether I wanted to live there. I would take many factors into consideration, would house prices be affected? Would educational standards be affected? Would local shops change their character? Would I have to put up with a bloody carnival? Would I have leaflets supporting radical religions thrust into my hands? etc etc. From what you say, if I moved in next door to you, and married your daughter, you would be the one having an 'hysterical overreaction'?

Most probably, because I believe in judging people by the content of their character, rather than the colour of their skin.

You had a dream did you.

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 07 Jun 15 5.58pm
I'm just wondering if "Whingeing Poms" (Which of course we have been called) is now considered racist "Down under". In fact man, many years ago I heard of an Aussie car sticker which read "Grow your own dope - plant a pom" !
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 07 Jun 15 5.58pm

I'm just wondering if "Whingeing Poms" (Which of course we have been called) is now considered racist "Down under".

In fact man, many years ago I heard of an Aussie car sticker which read "Grow your own dope - plant a pom" !

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derben 07 Jun 15 6.03pm
Quote Willo at 07 Jun 2015 5.58pm I'm just wondering if "Whingeing Poms" (Which of course we have been called) is now considered racist "Down under". In fact man, many years ago I heard of an Aussie car sticker which read "Grow your own dope - plant a pom" ! I might be wrong on this, but I think the right-on people only consider white people being derogatory about black people as being racist. So I don't think white on white counts - black on white certainly does not. But we really need an expert like Steptoe to explain all the nuances. Edited by derben (07 Jun 2015 6.03pm)
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derben

07 Jun 15 6.03pm

Quote Willo at 07 Jun 2015 5.58pm

I'm just wondering if "Whingeing Poms" (Which of course we have been called) is now considered racist "Down under".

In fact man, many years ago I heard of an Aussie car sticker which read "Grow your own dope - plant a pom" !

I might be wrong on this, but I think the right-on people only consider white people being derogatory about black people as being racist. So I don't think white on white counts - black on white certainly does not. But we really need an expert like Steptoe to explain all the nuances.

Edited by derben (07 Jun 2015 6.03pm)

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Steptoe 07 Jun 15 6.07pm
Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 6.03pm Quote Willo at 07 Jun 2015 5.58pm I'm just wondering if "Whingeing Poms" (Which of course we have been called) is now considered racist "Down under". In fact man, many years ago I heard of an Aussie car sticker which read "Grow your own dope - plant a pom" ! I might be wrong on this, but I think the right-on people only consider white people being derogatory about black people as being racist. So I don't think white on white counts - black on white certainly does not. But we really need an expert like Steptoe to explain all the nuances. Edited by derben (07 Jun 2015 6.03pm) There are plenty of racist of all shades, derben. None of them see themselves as such. You've got a lot in common. Maybe you can work with them as part of a bridge building exercise.
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Steptoe

07 Jun 15 6.07pm

Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 6.03pm

Quote Willo at 07 Jun 2015 5.58pm

I'm just wondering if "Whingeing Poms" (Which of course we have been called) is now considered racist "Down under".

In fact man, many years ago I heard of an Aussie car sticker which read "Grow your own dope - plant a pom" !

Edited by derben (07 Jun 2015 6.03pm)

There are plenty of racist of all shades, derben. None of them see themselves as such. You've got a lot in common. Maybe you can work with them as part of a bridge building exercise.

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derben 07 Jun 15 6.12pm
Quote Steptoe at 07 Jun 2015 6.07pm Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 6.03pm Quote Willo at 07 Jun 2015 5.58pm I'm just wondering if "Whingeing Poms" (Which of course we have been called) is now considered racist "Down under". In fact man, many years ago I heard of an Aussie car sticker which read "Grow your own dope - plant a pom" ! I might be wrong on this, but I think the right-on people only consider white people being derogatory about black people as being racist. So I don't think white on white counts - black on white certainly does not. But we really need an expert like Steptoe to explain all the nuances. Edited by derben (07 Jun 2015 6.03pm) There are plenty of racist of all shades, derben. None of them see themselves as such. You've got a lot in common. Maybe you can work with them as part of a bridge building exercise. Could find lots on this, but here is one example. [Link]
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derben

07 Jun 15 6.12pm

Quote Steptoe at 07 Jun 2015 6.07pm

Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 6.03pm

Quote Willo at 07 Jun 2015 5.58pm

I'm just wondering if "Whingeing Poms" (Which of course we have been called) is now considered racist "Down under".

In fact man, many years ago I heard of an Aussie car sticker which read "Grow your own dope - plant a pom" !

Edited by derben (07 Jun 2015 6.03pm)

There are plenty of racist of all shades, derben. None of them see themselves as such. You've got a lot in common. Maybe you can work with them as part of a bridge building exercise.

Could find lots on this, but here is one example.

[Link]

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Steptoe 07 Jun 15 6.17pm
Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 6.12pm Quote Steptoe at 07 Jun 2015 6.07pm Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 6.03pm Quote Willo at 07 Jun 2015 5.58pm I'm just wondering if "Whingeing Poms" (Which of course we have been called) is now considered racist "Down under". In fact man, many years ago I heard of an Aussie car sticker which read "Grow your own dope - plant a pom" ! I might be wrong on this, but I think the right-on people only consider white people being derogatory about black people as being racist. So I don't think white on white counts - black on white certainly does not. But we really need an expert like Steptoe to explain all the nuances. Edited by derben (07 Jun 2015 6.03pm) There are plenty of racist of all shades, derben. None of them see themselves as such. You've got a lot in common. Maybe you can work with them as part of a bridge building exercise. Could find lots on this, but here is one example. [Link] Has someone stated that it's impossible for people to hold such a view? You get to worry yourself over dark skinned people. He gets to go on about how it's somehow impossible for such people to be racist. You sound about as mad as each other. Edited by Steptoe (07 Jun 2015 6.18pm)
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Steptoe

07 Jun 15 6.17pm

Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 6.12pm

Quote Steptoe at 07 Jun 2015 6.07pm

Quote derben at 07 Jun 2015 6.03pm

Quote Willo at 07 Jun 2015 5.58pm

I'm just wondering if "Whingeing Poms" (Which of course we have been called) is now considered racist "Down under".

In fact man, many years ago I heard of an Aussie car sticker which read "Grow your own dope - plant a pom" !

Edited by derben (07 Jun 2015 6.03pm)

There are plenty of racist of all shades, derben. None of them see themselves as such. You've got a lot in common. Maybe you can work with them as part of a bridge building exercise.

Could find lots on this, but here is one example.

[Link]

Has someone stated that it's impossible for people to hold such a view? You get to worry yourself over dark skinned people. He gets to go on about how it's somehow impossible for such people to be racist. You sound about as mad as each other.

Edited by Steptoe (07 Jun 2015 6.18pm)

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 07 Jun 15 6.21pm
I think that the parameters surrounding the word "Racist" are expanding all the time. It has probably got to the stage when one could be called "Racist" if one says they don't like 'Irish stew' or 'Scotch broth' !
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 07 Jun 15 6.21pm

I think that the parameters surrounding the word "Racist" are expanding all the time.

It has probably got to the stage when one could be called "Racist" if one says they don't like 'Irish stew' or 'Scotch broth' !

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Steptoe 07 Jun 15 6.32pm
Quote Willo at 07 Jun 2015 6.21pm I think that the parameters surrounding the word "Racist" are expanding all the time. It has probably got to the stage when one could be called "Racist" if one says they don't like 'Irish stew' or 'Scotch broth' ! You forgot Welsh rarebit.
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Steptoe

07 Jun 15 6.32pm

Quote Willo at 07 Jun 2015 6.21pm

I think that the parameters surrounding the word "Racist" are expanding all the time.

It has probably got to the stage when one could be called "Racist" if one says they don't like 'Irish stew' or 'Scotch broth' !

You forgot Welsh rarebit.

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 07 Jun 15 6.34pm
Quote Steptoe at 07 Jun 2015 6.32pm Quote Willo at 07 Jun 2015 6.21pm I think that the parameters surrounding the word "Racist" are expanding all the time. It has probably got to the stage when one could be called "Racist" if one says they don't like 'Irish stew' or 'Scotch broth' ! You forgot Welsh rarebit. Had to turn many of them down in my pomp when I used to work in South Wales !
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 07 Jun 15 6.34pm

Quote Steptoe at 07 Jun 2015 6.32pm

Quote Willo at 07 Jun 2015 6.21pm

I think that the parameters surrounding the word "Racist" are expanding all the time.

It has probably got to the stage when one could be called "Racist" if one says they don't like 'Irish stew' or 'Scotch broth' !

You forgot Welsh rarebit.

Had to turn many of them down in my pomp when I used to work in South Wales !

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Steptoe 07 Jun 15 6.39pm
Quote Willo at 07 Jun 2015 6.34pm Quote Steptoe at 07 Jun 2015 6.32pm Quote Willo at 07 Jun 2015 6.21pm I think that the parameters surrounding the word "Racist" are expanding all the time. It has probably got to the stage when one could be called "Racist" if one says they don't like 'Irish stew' or 'Scotch broth' ! You forgot Welsh rarebit. Had to turn many of them down in my pomp when I used to work in South Wales ! Hah
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Steptoe

07 Jun 15 6.39pm

Quote Willo at 07 Jun 2015 6.34pm

Quote Steptoe at 07 Jun 2015 6.32pm

Quote Willo at 07 Jun 2015 6.21pm

I think that the parameters surrounding the word "Racist" are expanding all the time.

It has probably got to the stage when one could be called "Racist" if one says they don't like 'Irish stew' or 'Scotch broth' !

You forgot Welsh rarebit.

Had to turn many of them down in my pomp when I used to work in South Wales !

Hah

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 07 Jun 15 9.03pm
[Link] HIGHLY-QUALIFIED teacher Hamid Mahmood blew the whistle on Islamophobia in education recruitment procedures yesterday after changing his name to Harry Mason landed him an interview at a school that previously rejected him. After failing to be shortlisted twice for a job at Langdon Academy in east London last year, Mr Mahmood decided to try to “whiten” his name and apply again. In less than seven hours, “Mr Mason” had an interview offer, despite having exactly the same qualifications and even the same phone number and home address as Mr Mahmood. Hmm...
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 07 Jun 15 9.03pm

[Link]

HIGHLY-QUALIFIED teacher Hamid Mahmood blew the whistle on Islamophobia in education recruitment procedures yesterday after changing his name to Harry Mason landed him an interview at a school that previously rejected him.
After failing to be shortlisted twice for a job at Langdon Academy in east London last year, Mr Mahmood decided to try to “whiten” his name and apply again.
In less than seven hours, “Mr Mason” had an interview offer, despite having exactly the same qualifications and even the same phone number and home address as Mr Mahmood.

Hmm...

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derben 07 Jun 15 9.13pm
Quote nickgusset at 07 Jun 2015 9.03pm [Link] HIGHLY-QUALIFIED teacher Hamid Mahmood blew the whistle on Islamophobia in education recruitment procedures yesterday after changing his name to Harry Mason landed him an interview at a school that previously rejected him. After failing to be shortlisted twice for a job at Langdon Academy in east London last year, Mr Mahmood decided to try to “whiten” his name and apply again. In less than seven hours, “Mr Mason” had an interview offer, despite having exactly the same qualifications and even the same phone number and home address as Mr Mahmood. Hmm... The Morning Star, LOL, must be all true then. He applied under the Mason name a year after applying as Mahood. A great deal can change in a year that could affect who they interview. In any case employers should be able to employ whoever they want.
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derben

07 Jun 15 9.13pm

Quote nickgusset at 07 Jun 2015 9.03pm

[Link]

Hmm...

The Morning Star, LOL, must be all true then. He applied under the Mason name a year after applying as Mahood. A great deal can change in a year that could affect who they interview. In any case employers should be able to employ whoever they want.

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