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elgrande bedford 16 Oct 19 8.13pm | |
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Boris could bring back the best deal going.
always a Norwood boy, where ever I live. |
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steeleye20 Croydon 16 Oct 19 8.20pm | |
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Originally posted by sickboy
A bit like getting divorced then having your ex tell you who you can see, and when, where you can live, etc, etc. And paying them for the privilege!
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 16 Oct 19 8.41pm | |
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Originally posted by dannyboy1978
So we literally don't live in a democracy. Government doest have to abide by its manefesto , Members of parliment can vote against their constituency. Vote them all out and the new lot can f*** you over. This makes me more anti establishment and want to leave the EU. We live in a Parliamentary and not in a direct democracy. It's not a question of Government not abiding by it's manifesto. No Government controls Parliament. Parliament controls the Government, and if they vote something down then there is nothing they can do about it other than listen to the reasons why, make amendments and try again. Scrutiny by Parliament is a vital check on government. You might not like it but our system protects us against any possibility of us having a dictatorship rise to power. It has it's weaknesses but still represents the best option available. Leaving the EU won't change that. Nor is it anything to do with the "establishment". It's just our system.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 16 Oct 19 8.49pm | |
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Originally posted by jeeagles
ALl the current reports saying that they are nearly there on a deal but wont get the legal arrangement done in time. Thanks Jeremy, if you didnt take no deal off the table they would have been bending over backwards to get a deal done ASAP. Killed the negotiating position. The EU look to have compromised a lot but we won't really know until the fine print is available, which always looked a very remote possibility to me. Any blockage will be by the DUP and ERG, ie ultra leavers. Corbyn instructing Labour to vote against won't be the killer move. Enough Labour MPs are likely to vote in favour to tip the balance, if the DUP and ERG come on board. So blaming "Jeremy" seems a little bit as though you want to blame him for everything. There is more than enough to condemn him over but this isn't one.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Matov 16 Oct 19 8.58pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Leaving the EU won't change that. Nor is it anything to do with the "establishment". It's just our system. But our 'system' is no longer working. That is the point. Hundreds and hundreds of years of Parliamentary convention have been thrown out of the window because MP's want to ignore the result on June 23rd. By any definition of how the 'system' is meant to be working then we should be having a general election this week. We have no working Government worthy of its name. And MP's with no interest in offering a genuine chance for that to be challenged in an election. Our system is NOT meant to work in this way no matter how much you might want it to. Interference from the courts, referendum results not being honoured, an opposition not calling for a GE when the Government it is meant to be opposing no longer is able to function. It is a Zombie organisation that lacks the courage to actually even vote to revoke the A50 is claims to dislike so much. A disgraceful state of affairs. And one you cheer on. Shame on you.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 16 Oct 19 9.06pm | |
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Originally posted by Matov
Forget Ireland. Nothing to do with the border. All to do with regulatory alignment. That is what the EU want more than anything else because they do not want us soaking up every bit of over-seas investment going. That is what this supposed 'deal' is going to fall or die on. Limits on the trade deals we can do abroad. My gut is telling me it will all fall to pieces with the EU looking to blame Johnson with the hope it impacts on him in any forthcoming election. Lets see. Been wrong plenty of times before but this is all starting to stink now. Better no-deal than bowing down to the EU on this. No point in being out if we are limited on who we can trade with. We NEED regulatory alignment even more if we do start to do our own trade deals. We have spent 40 years getting our regulatory systems lined up and it would be beyond stupid to not continue and try to strike out on our own. The only other system that is recognised around the world is that from the USA and it would take years and a huge investment to switch to it. In my own industry I had experience of both and the EU one is, in my opinion, vastly superior, easier to understand, centred on science and not commercial interests and trusted. Staying aligned ought not to impact any trade deals, other than with the USA and I quite honestly would prefer not to get involved with the USA until Trump and any lingering Trump shadow has become a distant memory. Making the EU the villains might be comforting for the ultra Brexiteer but it isn't really accurate. We were the ones who decided to leave. They don't want us to and know it will cost them if and when it does. What would you do in their position? Just agree to everything asked of them?
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Matov 16 Oct 19 9.11pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I have never blamed the EU once. I fully get why they are acting like that have. No issues whatsoever around that. Rather impressed with people like Barnier. All my ire is aimed at our own MP's and their collusion with a hostile foreign organisation. That is what I struggle to understand. There never has been a deal possible. Bloody obvious since the EU need to try and handcuff us to protect their own downside. I struggle to comprehend why so many of our own people have been so keen to allow them to snap on the ironwork. That is the cause of my own increasing anger. Edited by Matov (16 Oct 2019 9.12pm)
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 16 Oct 19 9.21pm | |
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Originally posted by Matov
But our 'system' is no longer working. That is the point. Hundreds and hundreds of years of Parliamentary convention have been thrown out of the window because MP's want to ignore the result on June 23rd. It's working to perfection. Parliament is against accepting any deal which in their collective view is not in our best interests. They have't ignored the vote on June 23rd 2016. They triggered Article 50 but so far have rejected the agreement reached with the UK government on how we leave. Not if we leave. It now looks as though a rehashed version of that agreement is teetering on the brink again of being accepted. By any definition of how the 'system' is meant to be working then we should be having a general election this week. We have no working Government worthy of its name. And MP's with no interest in offering a genuine chance for that to be challenged in an election. Not when you have a PM who is threatening to thwart the will of Parliament by finding ways around a piece of legislation he doesn't like. Not when you have a PM whose action in closing down Parliamentary debate was found to be unlawful. Our system is NOT meant to work in this way no matter how much you might want it to. Interference from the courts, referendum results not being honoured, an opposition not calling for a GE when the Government it is meant to be opposing no longer is able to function. It IS meant to work in this way. It protects us against demagogues like Johnson and ultimately against dictators. We are being shown very strongly that Parliament, and not government is in charge of legislation. Every government has to work through Parliament. It is a Zombie organisation that lacks the courage to actually even vote to revoke the A50 is claims to dislike so much. The first priority is to determine whether any deal is acceptable and if it isn't to stop "no-deal". After that we will see how the cards fall. Article 50 may well have to be revoked to gain the time that a new Parliament needs and, if it decides it wants to consult again after negotiating a revised deal, to gain the approval of the people. Time will answer that. A disgraceful state of affairs. And one you cheer on. Shame on you. It's far from disgraceful. It's a triumph for democracy but that will only become clearer as the mists of anger and disappointment dissipate over time. Edited by Wisbech Eagle (16 Oct 2019 9.25pm)
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Teddy Eagle 16 Oct 19 9.33pm | |
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dannyboy1978 16 Oct 19 10.07pm | |
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How amateurish did May's negotiating look now!!
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Jimenez SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 16 Oct 19 10.12pm | |
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I don't agree with this guy on a lot of things, but agree with him 100% with this.
Pro USA & Israel |
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johnno42000 16 Oct 19 10.18pm | |
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Will the fish know about the border in the sea? If it's a type of fish that the EU allows to be fished and we say no as it is in danger will the fish do a fish type of runner to the safe water? Will we allow fish to lounge about all day, eating our sea life? For Cod'sHake won't someone think of the fish?
'Lies to the masses as are like fly's to mollasses...they want more and more and more' |
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