How do you know/

BBC Brussels correspondent Adam Fleming said EU negotiators were "so nonplussed by the proposal they asked if it was a mistake".

Also we should all desist from saying 'once brexit is over' as 1st November if we exit it is only the start of brexit.

When things actually happen.

Forecasts of doubling our debt next year whatever the option taken, from the IFS, that would make the deficit reduction of the last few years redundant.

Borrow and spend our way through brexit that is what is in store for us.

'debt levels not seen since the 1960's'

Granite Brexit here we come! Finally. No more bulls*** or bollox. Reports that the talks are finally done and dusted and no common ground to be found. Good. The UK needs to just get out ASAP.

Whether that is on October 31st or a GE it does not matter but we are leaving now or else our future is as nothing more than a vassal state.

Time for the UK to s*** or get off the pot.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

I suggest that you come and visit my local with me and then you will see just how wrong you are. I know perfectly well where, with whom and when to share my opinions and always wait for someone to give their's before responding. Very few evenings there do I ever touch on politics, except with a mate of mine who holds similar views and needs to offload his frustrations over the current situation. It's the same at my bowls club where no-one at all knows my political views.

Perhaps you don't notice but almost every comment I make is in response to some claim or other. It's only because this seemed like a club for the hard right that I joined in to start with because I believe such views need to be countered if there is an opportunity to do so. As this isn't a private group that opportunity exists. So I took it.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

I for one, am looking forward to it (if it happens). Absolute borefest.

I'm also looking forward to a lot of people on both sides who caused this mess directly suffering as a result of it. In some ways it will be sweeter to observe for those on the remain side once they've go over whatever 'devastation' they might initially feel. I'm not sure they should dwell on it for too long.

My hunch is that the remainer crowd are much more financially secure and less vulnerable to the short-term pain. In a way it's actually quite delicious. No-one will ever want to vote for anything like this ever again. At least not in our lifetimes. Then the system can go back to normal.

It will also be interesting see how long the stonewall, dogmatic attitude lasts for, and when people start to adapt their positions based on the observable reality that, for some, will be crushing.

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

There isn't a "remain establishment"! There is Parliament. There is common sense. There is the law. There are people who have accepted we have triggered Article 50 but are not prepared for us to leave without first putting sensible transition arrangements in place.

Some voted to remain. Others voted to leave. A few will come from what we traditionally call the "establishment". Most are just the rest of us.

On the other side are a group of people determined to get their own way at whatever the cost to the country because they believe they are right, even if Parliament disagrees.

There is a principle at stake here which is much bigger than Brexit itself and Parliament MUST exert itself to prove that, or our democracy could die.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.