General Election 2017

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General Election 2017

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 24 May 17 6.45pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I think banning an incoming religion would be a last resort. According to Sam Harris the problem is around 15 percent...While we know the problems with the mainstream religion most of its adherents just don't support murdering people. I think we need to back Islamic reform here.....We have to make it clear that we will deport people and strip them of nationality far more easily. We need to actually take action on the extremists here instead of just tracking them and then pointing fingers when the less obvious ones attack us. This is the general election thread.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 24 May 17 6.45pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I think banning an incoming religion would be a last resort. According to Sam Harris the problem is around 15 percent...While we know the problems with the mainstream religion most of its adherents just don't support murdering people.

I think we need to back Islamic reform here.....We have to make it clear that we will deport people and strip them of nationality far more easily.

We need to actually take action on the extremists here instead of just tracking them and then pointing fingers when the less obvious ones attack us.

This is the general election thread.

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Mr_Gristle In the land of Whelk Eaters 24 May 17 7.03pm
Originally posted by matt_himself You constantly post your disdain of British thought on here, so, please, enlighten us as to the Gristle plan to make these isles terrorist free. Wrong. I post about what I see as the manipulation of what you call British Thought by those with agendas that aren't in the interests of those being manipulated. As for a plan, tighter controls on online material directly referencing extremist views and tracking of access to that material would be a start. As would getting out of any involvement (that includes arming and training) in the killing of children in, say, Yemen or Syria. I'd also stop pandering to Qatar, Saudi and the like and start a programme of Gibraltar-style operations to kill the key promulgators of extreme violent hate. One wonders why our governments allow terrorist armies to operate in plain sight and then cry crocodile tears when those sharing the terrorists' worldview kill people much closer to home. Over to you. Edited by Mr_Gristle (24 May 2017 7.05pm) Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune)
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Mr_Gristle

In the land of Whelk Eaters 24 May 17 7.03pm

Originally posted by matt_himself

You constantly post your disdain of British thought on here, so, please, enlighten us as to the Gristle plan to make these isles terrorist free.

Wrong. I post about what I see as the manipulation of what you call British Thought by those with agendas that aren't in the interests of those being manipulated.

As for a plan, tighter controls on online material directly referencing extremist views and tracking of access to that material would be a start. As would getting out of any involvement (that includes arming and training) in the killing of children in, say, Yemen or Syria.

I'd also stop pandering to Qatar, Saudi and the like and start a programme of Gibraltar-style operations to kill the key promulgators of extreme violent hate.

One wonders why our governments allow terrorist armies to operate in plain sight and then cry crocodile tears when those sharing the terrorists' worldview kill people much closer to home.

Over to you.

Edited by Mr_Gristle (24 May 2017 7.05pm)

Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune)

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Stirlingsays 24 May 17 7.06pm
Originally posted by Mr_Gristle Wrong. I post about what I see as the manipulation of what you call British Thought by those with agendas that aren't in the interests of those being manipulated. As for a plan, tighter controls on online material directly referencing extremist views and tracking of access to that material would be a start. As would getting out of any involvement (that includes arming and training) in the killing of children in, say, Yemen or Syria. I'd also stop pandering to Qatar, Saudi and the like and start a programme of Gibraltar-style operations to kill the key promulgators of extreme violent hate. Over to you. So basically nothing effective then. Your first point is already done. Your second point is perhaps ethical to an extent but it would make no difference. Your third point would make no difference to terrorism here and only annoy foreign governments who are a counterbalance to Iran. Edited by Stirlingsays (24 May 2017 7.07pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

24 May 17 7.06pm

Originally posted by Mr_Gristle

Wrong. I post about what I see as the manipulation of what you call British Thought by those with agendas that aren't in the interests of those being manipulated.

I'd also stop pandering to Qatar, Saudi and the like and start a programme of Gibraltar-style operations to kill the key promulgators of extreme violent hate.

Over to you.

So basically nothing effective then.

Your first point is already done.
Your second point is perhaps ethical to an extent but it would make no difference.
Your third point would make no difference to terrorism here and only annoy foreign governments who are a counterbalance to Iran.

Edited by Stirlingsays (24 May 2017 7.07pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 24 May 17 7.10pm
Originally posted by nickgusset This is the general election thread. Yeah like you don't branch out Nick. Besides I didn't introduce this topic on the thread yet you direct that comment to me. Also, didn't you complain that this attack has made terrorism a part of the election discourse? 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

24 May 17 7.10pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

This is the general election thread.

Yeah like you don't branch out Nick.

Besides I didn't introduce this topic on the thread yet you direct that comment to me.

Also, didn't you complain that this attack has made terrorism a part of the election discourse?

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Mr_Gristle In the land of Whelk Eaters 24 May 17 7.17pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays So basically nothing effective then. Your first point is already done. Your second point is perhaps ethical to an extent but it would make no difference. Your third point would make no difference to terrorism here and only annoy foreign governments who are a counterbalance to Iran. Edited by Stirlingsays (24 May 2017 7.07pm) Actions speak a lot louder than words. Shall we instead bore them all to death with empty rhetoric? I'm also pretty sure that continuing to cut off the Hydra's heads will overwhelm its power to regenerate new ones. I'm also pretty sure that the vast majority of Islamic fanatics with murder of infidels on their minds aren't Shia. Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune)
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Mr_Gristle

In the land of Whelk Eaters 24 May 17 7.17pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

So basically nothing effective then.

Edited by Stirlingsays (24 May 2017 7.07pm)

Actions speak a lot louder than words. Shall we instead bore them all to death with empty rhetoric?

I'm also pretty sure that continuing to cut off the Hydra's heads will overwhelm its power to regenerate new ones.

I'm also pretty sure that the vast majority of Islamic fanatics with murder of infidels on their minds aren't Shia.

Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune)

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susmik PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 24 May 17 7.22pm
Originally posted by nickgusset Amber Rudd says we will not allow the terrorists to change our way of life. So why not immediately resume the election campaign? I totally agree with you on that one Nick Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.
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susmik

PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 24 May 17 7.22pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

Amber Rudd says we will not allow the terrorists to change our way of life. So why not immediately resume the election campaign?

I totally agree with you on that one Nick

Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 24 May 17 7.24pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Yeah like you don't branch out Nick. Besides I didn't introduce this topic on the thread yet you direct that comment to me. Also, didn't you complain that this attack has made terrorism a part of the election discourse? I complained that May will use it as part of the discourse a la Maggie and the falklands. I also think the parties need to get back to election campaigning asap otherwise our democracy has been disrupted which is what the terrorists want. May will leave it as long as possible IMO to allow people to forget what a s***show she was when being interviewed by Andrew Neil.
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 24 May 17 7.24pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Yeah like you don't branch out Nick.

Besides I didn't introduce this topic on the thread yet you direct that comment to me.

Also, didn't you complain that this attack has made terrorism a part of the election discourse?

I complained that May will use it as part of the discourse a la Maggie and the falklands.

I also think the parties need to get back to election campaigning asap otherwise our democracy has been disrupted which is what the terrorists want.

May will leave it as long as possible IMO to allow people to forget what a s***show she was when being interviewed by Andrew Neil.

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Stirlingsays 24 May 17 7.28pm
Originally posted by Mr_Gristle Actions speak a lot louder than words. Shall we instead bore them all to death with empty rhetoric? I'm also pretty sure that continuing to cut off the Hydra's heads will overwhelm its power to regenerate new ones. I'm also pretty sure that the vast majority of Islamic fanatics with murder of infidels on their minds aren't Shia. I repeat the problem is here, actions abroad would make no difference here. Sure Sunni Islam is the larger problem for us, but a significant number of Shia aren't too fond of Jews either that's for sure. It isn't about Sunni/Shia it's about westernizing and integration for mainstream Islam and about focusing upon extremists here instead of just tracking them. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

24 May 17 7.28pm

Originally posted by Mr_Gristle

Actions speak a lot louder than words. Shall we instead bore them all to death with empty rhetoric?

I'm also pretty sure that continuing to cut off the Hydra's heads will overwhelm its power to regenerate new ones.

I'm also pretty sure that the vast majority of Islamic fanatics with murder of infidels on their minds aren't Shia.

I repeat the problem is here, actions abroad would make no difference here.

Sure Sunni Islam is the larger problem for us, but a significant number of Shia aren't too fond of Jews either that's for sure.

It isn't about Sunni/Shia it's about westernizing and integration for mainstream Islam and about focusing upon extremists here instead of just tracking them.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 24 May 17 7.32pm
Originally posted by nickgusset I complained that May will use it as part of the discourse a la Maggie and the falklands. I also think the parties need to get back to election campaigning asap otherwise our democracy has been disrupted which is what the terrorists want. May will leave it as long as possible IMO to allow people to forget what a s***show she was when being interviewed by Andrew Neil. Nick....you should chill out about it....people decided long ago how they were going to vote. It's only about the margins. May could shag Prince Harry live on telly and it would make zero difference to the result. Corbyn isn't going to be PM and all that's in play is how much larger May's majority will be. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

24 May 17 7.32pm

Originally posted by nickgusset

I complained that May will use it as part of the discourse a la Maggie and the falklands.

I also think the parties need to get back to election campaigning asap otherwise our democracy has been disrupted which is what the terrorists want.

May will leave it as long as possible IMO to allow people to forget what a s***show she was when being interviewed by Andrew Neil.

Nick....you should chill out about it....people decided long ago how they were going to vote. It's only about the margins.

May could shag Prince Harry live on telly and it would make zero difference to the result. Corbyn isn't going to be PM and all that's in play is how much larger May's majority will be.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Mr_Gristle In the land of Whelk Eaters 24 May 17 7.35pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I repeat the problem is here, actions abroad would make no difference here. Sure Sunni Islam is the larger problem for us, but a significant number of Shia aren't too fond of Jews either that's for sure. It isn't about Sunni/Shia it's about westernizing and integration for mainstream Islam and about focusing upon extremists here instead of just tracking them. I disagree with you about the fallout from actions abroad, but what would the first steps in your plan to deal with "here" look like? Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune)
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Mr_Gristle

In the land of Whelk Eaters 24 May 17 7.35pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I repeat the problem is here, actions abroad would make no difference here.

Sure Sunni Islam is the larger problem for us, but a significant number of Shia aren't too fond of Jews either that's for sure.

It isn't about Sunni/Shia it's about westernizing and integration for mainstream Islam and about focusing upon extremists here instead of just tracking them.

I disagree with you about the fallout from actions abroad, but what would the first steps in your plan to deal with "here" look like?

Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune)

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Stirlingsays 24 May 17 7.43pm
Originally posted by Mr_Gristle I disagree with you about the fallout from actions abroad, but what would the first steps in your plan to deal with "here" look like? Haven't you read my posts on it? I've said it several times..... a quick summary: Islamic reformers have to be backed and given power. Any mosques that don't meet with their approval are closed down. Close down all religious schools. Cash deals made with friendly Islamic countries to take any anti western extremists here. Human rights law changed to make deportation easier and stripping of nationality so they can't come back.....So far we have only done this with the very worst of cases and it took years to enact through the courts. That has to change. No more sanctuary for extremists. If you don't wish to accept the British way of life you may have your right to reside here revoked. Edited by Stirlingsays (24 May 2017 7.44pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

24 May 17 7.43pm

Originally posted by Mr_Gristle

I disagree with you about the fallout from actions abroad, but what would the first steps in your plan to deal with "here" look like?

Haven't you read my posts on it? I've said it several times..... a quick summary:

Islamic reformers have to be backed and given power. Any mosques that don't meet with their approval are closed down.

Close down all religious schools.

Cash deals made with friendly Islamic countries to take any anti western extremists here. Human rights law changed to make deportation easier and stripping of nationality so they can't come back.....So far we have only done this with the very worst of cases and it took years to enact through the courts. That has to change.

No more sanctuary for extremists. If you don't wish to accept the British way of life you may have your right to reside here revoked.

Edited by Stirlingsays (24 May 2017 7.44pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Mr_Gristle In the land of Whelk Eaters 24 May 17 7.56pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Haven't you read my posts on it? I've said it several times..... a quick summary: Islamic reformers have to be backed and given power. Any mosques that don't meet with their approval are closed down. Close down all religious schools. Cash deals made with friendly Islamic countries to take any anti western extremists here. Human rights law changed to make deportation easier and stripping of nationality so they can't come back.....So far we have only done this with the very worst of cases and it took years to enact through the courts. That has to change. No more sanctuary for extremists. If you don't wish to accept the British way of life you may have your right to reside here revoked. Edited by Stirlingsays (24 May 2017 7.44pm) Thanks for the easy to access summary :-) Closing ALL religious schools is something I'd love to see happen, and I went to Catholic schools. Hmm. The "friendly" Islamic countries are the ones exporting the hatred, so not sure about that. I agree on the principle of revocation of UK access rights / status upon conviction of certain offences, although that would be tough to implement more widely. Wouldn't hurt to try. However, how do you start to define a "British Way of Life" test and ensure it's universal? Where do you deport a fail if they are nothing other than a British national? I'd set the bar at "anyone owning a Real Madrid, Barcelona or Bayern Munich shirt" for example. Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune)
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Mr_Gristle

In the land of Whelk Eaters 24 May 17 7.56pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Haven't you read my posts on it? I've said it several times..... a quick summary:

Islamic reformers have to be backed and given power. Any mosques that don't meet with their approval are closed down.

Close down all religious schools.

No more sanctuary for extremists. If you don't wish to accept the British way of life you may have your right to reside here revoked.

Edited by Stirlingsays (24 May 2017 7.44pm)

Thanks for the easy to access summary :-)

Closing ALL religious schools is something I'd love to see happen, and I went to Catholic schools.

Hmm. The "friendly" Islamic countries are the ones exporting the hatred, so not sure about that.

I agree on the principle of revocation of UK access rights / status upon conviction of certain offences, although that would be tough to implement more widely. Wouldn't hurt to try.

However, how do you start to define a "British Way of Life" test and ensure it's universal? Where do you deport a fail if they are nothing other than a British national? I'd set the bar at "anyone owning a Real Madrid, Barcelona or Bayern Munich shirt" for example.

Well I think Simon's head is large; always involved in espionage. (Name that tune)

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