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Jeremy Corbyn
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 matt_himself  Matataland 12 Sep 16 3.56pm |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
Its kind of odd, because in my experience the same occurs with the right wing. Except of course they periodically end up doing something that really can't be morally justified and shift the goal posts. I think its the fallacy of a moral truth that lies at the heart of this problem. Pragmatism tends to work better politically. Morality and politics tend to result in disaster, oppression, exclusion and cruelty. Given your rationale, do you therefore think that two standard bearers for the left, Mao and Stalin, never did anything that 'reLly can't be morally justified'? Or do you class actions that 'can't be mortally justified' as being limited to matters such as imposing the Bedroom Tax or cutting benefits and that mass murder and forced labour of millions is fine because the end justifies the means?
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 12 Sep 16 4.33pm |
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Originally posted by Stuk
Who forgot to turn Hol radio off btw? I know nearly 20 hours I've been on...
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 12 Sep 16 10.38pm |
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Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch
I have struggled to find any record of Corbyn meeting Israeli government or even Jewish Israelis. If you can point me to any links I will give them a read. For someone who claims that his relationship with Hamas and Hezbollah are to promote peace, I find it unusual that meetings with the "other side " are so hard to find. Corbyn declined the opportunity to today visit the Yad Vashem Holocaust Museum after being invited by Isaac Herzog. This invite was sent months ago so he could have adjusted his diary if necessary. I did come across this, Corbyn's invite to Hate Preacher Raed Salah for tea on the terrace. Particularly galling is the language Corbyn uses to describe him
The frontrunner for the Labour leadership has answered a series of questions posed by his critics about alleged “links” to people with anti-Semitic views. In an interview with Channel 4 News Jeremy Corbyn said the allegations were “ludicrous and wrong”. The questions, published by the Jewish Chronicle newspaper last week, regarded allegations that Mr Corbyn had met and donated money to holocaust denier Paul Eisen and defended allegedly anti-semitic Muslim cleric Raed Salah. Mr Corbyn said he had attended meetings of a group run by Mr Eisen commemorating a massacre of Palestinian Arabs by militants but that this had taken place before Mr Eisen had made any anti-Semitic views known. He said that if he had donated any money it would have been by giving money to a collection bucket. “I have no contact now whatsoever with Paul Eisen and Deir Yassin Remembered. I did attend a number of events concerning Deir Yassin Remembered some years ago, I think two or three of them,” he said. “Fifteen years ago [Eisen] was not a Holocaust denier. Had he been a Holocaust denier, I would have had absolutely nothing to do with him. I was moved by the plight of people who had lost their village in Deir Yassin.” “Holocaust denial is vile and wrong. The Holocaust was the most vile part of our history. The Jewish people killed by the Nazi Holocaust were the people who suffered the most in the 20th century.” On the issue of Mr Corbyn’s meeting with Raed Salah, the candidate said he was unaware of any conviction for anti-Semitism at the time. “We had quite a long conversation and I made my views very clear. He did not at any stage utter any antisemitic remarks to me,” he explained. A group of Jewish critics of Israel today wrote a letter to the Jewish Chronicle in support of Mr Corbyn. “There is something deeply unpleasant and dishonest about your McCarthyite guilt by association technique,” they said. Corbyn said he was unaware of Raed Salah's anti semetism at the time of meeting him. Whether he should have been better informed is probably a good argument. Watch the video from about 3 minutes in.
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Y Ddraig Goch  In The Crowd 13 Sep 16 7.44pm |
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For those with Twitter the #1yearofcorbyn is highly amusing. Labour losing its s***
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| matt_himself Matataland 13 Sep 16 8.11pm |
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This sums it up: It's all the fault of the media, the PLP and Brexit, isn't it?
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 13 Sep 16 9.36pm |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
This sums it up: It's all the fault of the media, the PLP and Brexit, isn't it? The the two parties were a lot closer just before the mass resignations and leadership challenge.
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| Hoof Hearted 14 Sep 16 10.03am | |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
The the two parties were a lot closer just before the mass resignations and leadership challenge. Don't forget Dianne Abbot's mantra too.... "It's the Westminster Bubble"
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| OknotOK Cockfosters, London 14 Sep 16 10.57am |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
The the two parties were a lot closer just before the mass resignations and leadership challenge. Even if that was true it is sort of immaterial now isn't it? He is where he is. To the public, as a leader he now looks like someone who can't control his friends and allies let alone his enemies. It's performative. Enough people have said he is a poor leader and can't win. So now he can't.
"It's almost like a moral decision. Except not really cos noone is going to find out," Jez, Peep Show |
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| jamiemartin721 Reading 14 Sep 16 11.00am |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
Given your rationale, do you therefore think that two standard bearers for the left, Mao and Stalin, never did anything that 'reLly can't be morally justified'? Or do you class actions that 'can't be mortally justified' as being limited to matters such as imposing the Bedroom Tax or cutting benefits and that mass murder and forced labour of millions is fine because the end justifies the means? huh? Thank god no one on the right wing has ever resorted to mass murder, forced labour etc. I think the problem of morality is entirely the fact that people use it to justify oppression of others. Right wing or left wing, the idea of a 'moral truth' that is unassailable results in oppression, every time. Whether its religion, or politics. The power of possession of 'the truth' is dangerous.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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| matt_himself Matataland 14 Sep 16 11.24am |
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Originally posted by jamiemartin721
huh? Thank god no one on the right wing has ever resorted to mass murder, forced labour etc. I think the problem of morality is entirely the fact that people use it to justify oppression of others. Right wing or left wing, the idea of a 'moral truth' that is unassailable results in oppression, every time. Whether its religion, or politics. The power of possession of 'the truth' is dangerous. Jamie, don't twist things. Your message was that the left don't do things that cannot be morally justified whereas the right often do. Look back on what you wrote. I am not saying that there never have been any odious right wing regimes or actions, I am questioning your views.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| Y Ddraig Goch In The Crowd 14 Sep 16 10.03pm |
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Having watched Sky tonight, I struggle to believe how anyone can see Corbyn as electable. Some basic questions were a real struggle for him. Not a fan of Smith, it's like watching an unfunny Rob Brydon
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| matt_himself Matataland 14 Sep 16 10.13pm |
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Originally posted by Y Ddraig Goch
Having watched Sky tonight, I struggle to believe how anyone can see Corbyn as electable. Some basic questions were a real struggle for him. Not a fan of Smith, it's like watching an unfunny Rob Brydon So...its just like watching Rob Brydon.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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