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Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?
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 Grumbles 09 May 22 3.50pm |
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Originally posted by W12
We had paid off the loans by the early 1990’s but that doesn’t detract from the truth of the situation we are in. I continue to be amazed at how people are willing to defend the indefensible like their life depended on it. I suggest you stop then.
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Stirlingsays  09 May 22 4.02pm |
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Originally posted by Grumbles
Does it cover how an elite becomes and elite, and how grass roots movements get transformed into new elites? I've ordered it but its first print run had sold out so I'm still waiting. Here's a review. Edited by Stirlingsays (09 May 2022 4.02pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Grumbles 09 May 22 4.31pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I've ordered it but its first print run had sold out so I'm still waiting. Here's a review. Edited by Stirlingsays (09 May 2022 4.02pm) Sounds interesting. I would not completely rule out popularism, in this paradigm suggested it is very much a marketing tool, and probably suggests why the popularist route eventually gets elites into trouble with the masses.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 May 22 5.15pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Yeah ok Wisbech....sure whatever you say. No one could convince you of anything, you've never been here for good faith debates. You have some odd ideas about who might be regarded as an "elite". Well, actually, you just have some odd ideas. It seems to me that you think anyone who is not one of the proletariat, must be part of the elite. That's a very leftist concept. The left-wingers weren't proposing a conspiracy theory. They believed in an economic theory. It's "your" crew who have adopted the conspiracy, but they do so because of a shared misreading of the role of leaders and managers. You won't be convinced. "Elites" lie at the bedrock of all that's wrong in the world from your perspective, but not mine. The people exist, but not the motivations attributed to them. Their motivations vary, some good, some bad, but they are just a function of a working society.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Stirlingsays 09 May 22 5.38pm |
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Originally posted by Grumbles
Sounds interesting. I would not completely rule out popularism, in this paradigm suggested it is very much a marketing tool, and probably suggests why the popularist route eventually gets elites into trouble with the masses. That's the theory, populism is only good for grass roots...they are vanguard movements if you will....it isn't until they get backed by elites that they ever succeed.....a Bernie Sanders (who didn't but had a strong movement) or a Trump.....or the Musk 'bros'. So we see that the civil rights movement succeeded because the Democrats, who were in government wanted it too.....but moving to the present day the yellow jackets movement in France didn't succeed....because none of the French elites in power backed it....as opposed to BLM who did succeed because...again, the Democrats, institutions and their donors backed it.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| W12 09 May 22 5.51pm | |
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Maybe someone can explain to me why Zelenski is quite so wealthy?
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| Stirlingsays 09 May 22 5.54pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
You have some odd ideas about who might be regarded as an "elite". Well, actually, you just have some odd ideas. It seems to me that you think anyone who is not one of the proletariat, must be part of the elite. That's a very leftist concept. The left-wingers weren't proposing a conspiracy theory. They believed in an economic theory. It's "your" crew who have adopted the conspiracy, but they do so because of a shared misreading of the role of leaders and managers. You won't be convinced. "Elites" lie at the bedrock of all that's wrong in the world from your perspective, but not mine. The people exist, but not the motivations attributed to them. Their motivations vary, some good, some bad, but they are just a function of a working society. If you were serious about any real analysis you'd buy the book and analyse its ideas....but you aren't serious about it because for you all it's just about being against the opposite political tribe.....you aren't actually interested in ideas. Even with elite theory, which exists independent of left or right....you want to characterise it as just a right wing thing when it's universal. Edited by Stirlingsays (09 May 2022 5.54pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 09 May 22 5.56pm |
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Originally posted by W12
Maybe someone can explain to me why Zelenski is quite so wealthy? As you already know....heavily backed by an elite. If he survives he's going to get a whole lot richer as well. Edited by Stirlingsays (09 May 2022 5.57pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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ASCPFC  Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 09 May 22 7.29pm |
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Originally posted by W12
Maybe someone can explain to me why Zelenski is quite so wealthy? Kept his tips
Red and Blue Army! |
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 09 May 22 7.34pm |
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Originally posted by ASCPFC
Kept his tips Artificial booby nipples that show from under his boob tube?
COYP |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 09 May 22 10.11pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
If you were serious about any real analysis you'd buy the book and analyse its ideas....but you aren't serious about it because for you all it's just about being against the opposite political tribe.....you aren't actually interested in ideas. Even with elite theory, which exists independent of left or right....you want to characterise it as just a right wing thing when it's universal. Edited by Stirlingsays (09 May 2022 5.54pm) It has to be something I want to keep for me to buy a book. I use the library if there is anything I want to read. If it becomes available there, and I have some spare time, which is at a premium at present, I might take a look. I realise that the "elite theory" spans the political divide. I was talking only about your approach to it. Indeed I would be interested to hear exactly who you regard as the "elites". Who are they, what links them, how do people become one, how do they communicate, plan and manage their activities? I completely accept there are strata in our societies. The aristocracy and old money continue to wield power and influence via their status and investments. Successful people become wealthy, and wealth produces influence. Writers and performers can influence. So can journalists. That though doesn't mean they are "elite". It's just the way it is, and always has been. Real power rests with us. We can vote together for a government which confiscates all the wealth and redistributes it, if that's our wish.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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Nicholas91  The Democratic Republic of Kent 09 May 22 10.14pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
It has to be something I want to keep for me to buy a book. I use the library if there is anything I want to read. If it becomes available there, and I have some spare time, which is at a premium at present, I might take a look. I realise that the "elite theory" spans the political divide. I was talking only about your approach to it. Indeed I would be interested to hear exactly who you regard as the "elites". Who are they, what links them, how do people become one, how do they communicate, plan and manage their activities? I completely accept there are strata in our societies. The aristocracy and old money continue to wield power and influence via their status and investments. Successful people become wealthy, and wealth produces influence. Writers and performers can influence. So can journalists. That though doesn't mean they are "elite". It's just the way it is, and always has been. Real power rests with us. We can vote together for a government which confiscates all the wealth and redistributes it, if that's our wish. Are you trying to convince us or yourself Wissie?
Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!! |
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