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legaleagle Flag 23 Mar 15 11.23pm

Careful! You may put Stirling off again;Duncan Sandys established the European Movement in the UK, back in 1947...

 

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Stirlingsays Flag 24 Mar 15 4.55am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote legaleagle at 23 Mar 2015 9.01pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 23 Mar 2015 7.05pm

Quote Willo at 23 Mar 2015 7.02pm

Farage is candidate in 'Thanet South' at election, seat the Conservatives won at the last election with a majority of approx 7,600. And Conservatives won it the previous election.Farage has said he will resign as leader if he is not elected as an MP.


Well....Considering the current state of the Tory party we can be confident that Farage will be the only real Tory actually standing at 'Thanet South'.

I think the voters will recognise that.


The Tory candidate actually sounds just like your vision of a "real Tory" given that the Tory candidate was himself leader of UKIP in 1997 before serving as deputy leader between 1997 and 2000!

Edited by legaleagle (23 Mar 2015 9.02pm)


That's actually quite amusing.

It shows just how disconnected the pro-EU Tory leadership are from the actual candidate grassroots.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays Flag 24 Mar 15 5.03am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote legaleagle at 23 Mar 2015 11.23pm

Careful! You may put Stirling off again;Duncan Sandys established the European Movement in the UK, back in 1947...


I think you'll find that the vision of the European movement back after the war and today's EU are quite frankly miles apart. It's a simple misconception to believe that being anti this EU means that you are anti European or against cooperation, immigration or trade. It's the difference between turning your taps on for the bath and stopping them when its full and just leaving them full on.

Churchill supported the creation of a European movement, Thatcher supported early visions of the EU.

But what we have today however would have been supported by neither.

Thatcher regarded signing up to those treaties as the worst thing she did.

I'd say selling off council stock without replacement was pretty bad but she wasn't far wrong on her hindsight on the EU.

Edited by Stirlingsays (24 Mar 2015 5.04am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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legaleagle Flag 24 Mar 15 11.12am

I was just teasing you Stirling! Though this account of the events leading to the formation of the European Movement, with a goal of "political,economic,and monetary union" for Europe is worth noting:

"From 7 to 11th May 1948, 800 delegates from around Europe as well as observers from Canada and the United States gathered in The Hague, The Netherlands for the Congress of Europe. Organised by the International Committee of the Movements for European Unity and presided over by Winston Churchill, the Congress brought together representatives from across a broad political spectrum, providing them with the opportunity to discuss ideas about the development of European Union. Important political figures such as Konrad Adenauer, Winston Churchill, Harold Macmillan, François Mitterrand, Paul-Henry Spaak, Albert Coppé and Altiero Spinelli took an active role in the congress and a call was launched for a political, economic and monetary Union of Europe. This landmark conference was to have a profound influence on the shape of the European Movement, which was created soon afterwards.

The European Movement was formally created on the 25th October 1948, when the Joint International Committee for European Unity decided to change its name. Duncan Sandys was elected President and Léon Blum, Winston Churchill, Alcide De Gasperi and Paul-Henri Spaak were elected as Honorary Presidents."

In fairness to Duncan Sandys, he was a big supporter of Ian Smith proclaiming UDI in Southern Rhodesia over the issue of "one person,one vote",so that arguably does buttress his status as having been a genuine "real Tory" of his day

Edited by legaleagle (24 Mar 2015 11.40am)

 

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TheJudge Flag 24 Mar 15 4.25pm

We've got to a point now where you can't even express an opinion on a website for your own football team if it is counter to the idealized, quasi religious liberal,left propaganda on immigration. I have been banned from the BBS for highlighting issues that surround the topic and I find that disgusting. This is the Britain we now live in.
IMO Trevor Phillips is a self serving Blairite, but he is so right about inverse racism, even if he only now admits it for political gain.

 

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ghosteagle Flag 24 Mar 15 4.48pm Send a Private Message to ghosteagle Add ghosteagle as a friend

Quote TheJudge at 24 Mar 2015 4.25pm

We've got to a point now where you can't even express an opinion on a website for your own football team if it is counter to the idealized, quasi religious liberal,left propaganda on immigration. I have been banned from the BBS for highlighting issues that surround the topic and I find that disgusting. This is the Britain we now live in.
IMO Trevor Phillips is a self serving Blairite, but he is so right about inverse racism, even if he only now admits it for political gain.

Rumour has it that you were banned from the BBS for being a huge racist. And a spanner.


 

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imbored Flag UK 24 Mar 15 4.50pm

Quote TheJudge at 24 Mar 2015 4.25pm

We've got to a point now where you can't even express an opinion on a website for your own football team if it is counter to the idealized, quasi religious liberal,left propaganda on immigration. I have been banned from the BBS for highlighting issues that surround the topic and I find that disgusting. This is the Britain we now live in.
IMO Trevor Phillips is a self serving Blairite, but he is so right about inverse racism, even if he only now admits it for political gain.

Got to love someone stating 'you can't say' then go on to say whatever it is you supposedly can't.


Edited by imbored (24 Mar 2015 5.06pm)

 

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reborn 24 Mar 15 5.02pm Send a Private Message to reborn Add reborn as a friend

Quote imbored at 24 Mar 2015 4.50pm

Quote TheJudge at 24 Mar 2015 4.25pm

We've got to a point now where you can't even express an opinion on a website for your own football team if it is counter to the idealized, quasi religious liberal,left propaganda on immigration. I have been banned from the BBS for highlighting issues that surround the topic and I find that disgusting. This is the Britain we now live in.
IMO Trevor Phillips is a self serving Blairite, but he is so right about inverse racism, even if he only now admits it for political gain.

Got to love someone stating 'you can't say' who then go on to say whatever it is you supposedly can't.


Edited by imbored (24 Mar 2015 4.52pm)


Up there with people who say "I don't mean to offend you but..." and then say something completely offensive. LOL

 


My username has nothing to do with my religious beliefs

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TheJudge Flag 24 Mar 15 5.37pm

Quote ghosteagle at 24 Mar 2015 4.48pm

Quote TheJudge at 24 Mar 2015 4.25pm

We've got to a point now where you can't even express an opinion on a website for your own football team if it is counter to the idealized, quasi religious liberal,left propaganda on immigration. I have been banned from the BBS for highlighting issues that surround the topic and I find that disgusting. This is the Britain we now live in.
IMO Trevor Phillips is a self serving Blairite, but he is so right about inverse racism, even if he only now admits it for political gain.

Rumour has it that you were banned from the BBS for being a huge racist. And a spanner.


Hello Ghost eagle.

Well that is a rumour that was spread by Maz and his sycophant leftie brigade friends and it's simply a lie, plain and simple. A very self serving lie I might add. Unfortunately most of the mods on the BBS are as bad as the clique that condemns anyone who opposes their views and then act all innocent afterwards. They are nothing but name calling, playground bullies who are really brave from the safety of their PC's.

 

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Stirlingsays Flag 25 Mar 15 12.09pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote legaleagle at 24 Mar 2015 11.12am

I was just teasing you Stirling! Though this account of the events leading to the formation of the European Movement, with a goal of "political,economic,and monetary union" for Europe is worth noting:

"From 7 to 11th May 1948, 800 delegates from around Europe as well as observers from Canada and the United States gathered in The Hague, The Netherlands for the Congress of Europe. Organised by the International Committee of the Movements for European Unity and presided over by Winston Churchill, the Congress brought together representatives from across a broad political spectrum, providing them with the opportunity to discuss ideas about the development of European Union. Important political figures such as Konrad Adenauer, Winston Churchill, Harold Macmillan, François Mitterrand, Paul-Henry Spaak, Albert Coppé and Altiero Spinelli took an active role in the congress and a call was launched for a political, economic and monetary Union of Europe. This landmark conference was to have a profound influence on the shape of the European Movement, which was created soon afterwards.

The European Movement was formally created on the 25th October 1948, when the Joint International Committee for European Unity decided to change its name. Duncan Sandys was elected President and Léon Blum, Winston Churchill, Alcide De Gasperi and Paul-Henri Spaak were elected as Honorary Presidents."

In fairness to Duncan Sandys, he was a big supporter of Ian Smith proclaiming UDI in Southern Rhodesia over the issue of "one person,one vote",so that arguably does buttress his status as having been a genuine "real Tory" of his day

Edited by legaleagle (24 Mar 2015 11.40am)


Well, there's nothing wrong with a bit of teasing.....Though it's preferable from a long legged lovely.

As for good old Winston though, if you knew about his views at the time it would inform you that he didn't view Britain as apart of the necessary European union. He viewed Britain as cooperating and all the rest of it but not actually being within a political/economic union. He supported a European union without Britain.....Which is indeed what happened initially.

Edited by Stirlingsays (25 Mar 2015 12.10pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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legaleagle Flag 25 Mar 15 8.04pm

Not quite...though he did subsequently caveat the UK joining being dependent on the agreement of the Dominions.

(article by Jon Danzig,2013):

"At London’s Albert Hall, in May 1947, just a few months after his Zurich speech, Churchill spoke as Chairman and Founder of he United Europe Movement to ‘present the idea of a United Europe in which our country will play a decisive part..’

Churchill argued that Britain and France should be the, `founder-partners in this movement’ and concluded, `Britain will have to play her full part as a member of the European family’.

In October 1948, at a Conservative Mass Meeting at Llandudno, Churchill made clear that Britain held a unique position at the heart of ‘three majestic circles’: the ‘Empire and Commonwealth’, ‘the English speaking world’ and a ‘United Europe’.

Churchill described these three circles as ‘co-existent’ and ‘linked together’. He said, ‘We are the only country which has a great part in every one of them. We stand, in fact, at the very point of junction, and here in this Island at the centre of the seaways and perhaps of the airways also, we have the opportunity of joining them all together.’

The European Union itself lists Sir Winston Churchill as one of its ‘eleven founding fathers’".

Edited by legaleagle (25 Mar 2015 8.07pm)

 

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Stirlingsays Flag 25 Mar 15 8.18pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote legaleagle at 25 Mar 2015 8.04pm

Not quite...though he did subsequently caveat the UK joining being dependent on the agreement of the Dominions.

(article by Jon Danzig,2013):

"At London’s Albert Hall, in May 1947, just a few months after his Zurich speech, Churchill spoke as Chairman and Founder of he United Europe Movement to ‘present the idea of a United Europe in which our country will play a decisive part..’

Churchill argued that Britain and France should be the, `founder-partners in this movement’ and concluded, `Britain will have to play her full part as a member of the European family’.

In October 1948, at a Conservative Mass Meeting at Llandudno, Churchill made clear that Britain held a unique position at the heart of ‘three majestic circles’: the ‘Empire and Commonwealth’, ‘the English speaking world’ and a ‘United Europe’.

Churchill described these three circles as ‘co-existent’ and ‘linked together’. He said, ‘We are the only country which has a great part in every one of them. We stand, in fact, at the very point of junction, and here in this Island at the centre of the seaways and perhaps of the airways also, we have the opportunity of joining them all together.’

The European Union itself lists Sir Winston Churchill as one of its ‘eleven founding fathers’".

Edited by legaleagle (25 Mar 2015 8.07pm)


I'll say it again Legal, you are wrong if you think Churchill agreed with the concept of Britain giving itself to political economic EU union.

It's well known and accepted that Churchill did not see Britain to be a full member of any EU.

I think you confuse language meant to make European move closer together with what the EU is today.....These are two totally different things.

Churchill would have been outraged at what parliament has given up.....He was a parliamentarian first and foremost.

It is just wrong to push Churchill as someone willing to see Britain as a bit part in a sea of one vote nations.....Sorry Legal, he was no egalitarian lefty.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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