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silvertop Portishead 29 Sep 19 1.44pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays You wrote, 'Leave occupies the extremes of both right and left.' I'm just stating that the 'leave' position....which is roughly about half the respondents to opinion polls is evidence that it can't be on the 'extreme' if it's a mainstream position. Picky picky
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silvertop

Portishead 29 Sep 19 1.44pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

You wrote, 'Leave occupies the extremes of both right and left.'

I'm just stating that the 'leave' position....which is roughly about half the respondents to opinion polls is evidence that it can't be on the 'extreme' if it's a mainstream position.

Picky picky

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 29 Sep 19 1.47pm
Originally posted by Matov Until a few days ago I would have agreed with you but I am increasingly convinced that they now believe he has a way of ignoring them. Johnson has nothing to lose. If he goes to Brussels and asks for an extentsion he is toast. He knows that. This is a man who has burnt all his boats and destroyed all his bridges. And no doubt knows all the classical comparisons, in the original Greek or Latin, which are churning away in that crust of his. He has NOTHING to lose. Absolutely nothing. I suspect would even go to jail rather than comply because then he becomes a Martyr. A politician whose legacy will be that he was willing to even lose his liberty if it meant trying to deliver Brexit. That is why the narrative has changed so much over the last couple of days. Johnson is not going to blink. He cannot. That is the point. I don't think what you have said actually conflicts with my last post. I agree that is his position so it would surely be better to shift the blame for any delay onto others. If he is forced out of office it won't be him that has blinked. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 29 Sep 19 1.47pm

Originally posted by Matov

Until a few days ago I would have agreed with you but I am increasingly convinced that they now believe he has a way of ignoring them. Johnson has nothing to lose. If he goes to Brussels and asks for an extentsion he is toast. He knows that.

This is a man who has burnt all his boats and destroyed all his bridges. And no doubt knows all the classical comparisons, in the original Greek or Latin, which are churning away in that crust of his.

He has NOTHING to lose. Absolutely nothing. I suspect would even go to jail rather than comply because then he becomes a Martyr. A politician whose legacy will be that he was willing to even lose his liberty if it meant trying to deliver Brexit.

That is why the narrative has changed so much over the last couple of days. Johnson is not going to blink. He cannot. That is the point.

I don't think what you have said actually conflicts with my last post.

I agree that is his position so it would surely be better to shift the blame for any delay onto others. If he is forced out of office it won't be him that has blinked.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Stirlingsays 29 Sep 19 1.55pm
Originally posted by silvertop Picky picky Well, I assure you there was no ill intent. Perhaps it was a bit picky.....stares at navel. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

29 Sep 19 1.55pm

Originally posted by silvertop

Picky picky

Well, I assure you there was no ill intent.

Perhaps it was a bit picky.....stares at navel.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 29 Sep 19 1.59pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle You remainers just love using emotive language don't you "An out of control Johnson" indeed I am not writing as a "remainer" and nor are those in Parliament opposing the government's position. I am writing as someone who believes, as I think everyone should, in the supremacy of Parliament over the executive in all situations. My choice of language is not the least emotive. It is factual. The only emotive language continues to be used by people like Johnson in describing an Act of Parliament as a "surrender." Johnson is out of control. He does not have a majority so does not control Parliament and Parliament is where the decisions are taken. Out of control is exactly what he is. That he is behaving as though he still thinks he has things in his own hands doesn't mean he does. He is like a sailor wrestling with the tiller as his boat is driven towards the rocks in a gale and someone else has control of the sails. He is not in control, therefore he is out of control. For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 29 Sep 19 1.59pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

You remainers just love using emotive language don't you

"An out of control Johnson" indeed

I am not writing as a "remainer" and nor are those in Parliament opposing the government's position.

I am writing as someone who believes, as I think everyone should, in the supremacy of Parliament over the executive in all situations.

My choice of language is not the least emotive. It is factual. The only emotive language continues to be used by people like Johnson in describing an Act of Parliament as a "surrender."

Johnson is out of control. He does not have a majority so does not control Parliament and Parliament is where the decisions are taken.

Out of control is exactly what he is. That he is behaving as though he still thinks he has things in his own hands doesn't mean he does.

He is like a sailor wrestling with the tiller as his boat is driven towards the rocks in a gale and someone else has control of the sails. He is not in control, therefore he is out of control.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Hrolf The Ganger 29 Sep 19 2.09pm
Question to those that claim to know. What would stop a future Parliament with a Leave majority from creating a new bill to leave the EU without another referendum if article 50 was revoked?
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Hrolf The Ganger

29 Sep 19 2.09pm

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Question to those that claim to know.

What would stop a future Parliament with a Leave majority from creating a new bill to leave the EU without another referendum if article 50 was revoked?

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steeleye20 Croydon 29 Sep 19 2.09pm
What a final speech it will be by Johnson:- 'Johnny Foreigner'. 'Hang-em' 'Bash-em' An add-on this year - 'rape-em'. Hysterical applause from the blue-rinse brigade.
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steeleye20

Croydon 29 Sep 19 2.09pm

What a final speech it will be by Johnson:-

'Johnny Foreigner'.

'Hang-em'

'Bash-em'

An add-on this year - 'rape-em'.

Hysterical applause from the blue-rinse brigade.

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Matov 29 Sep 19 2.20pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Question to those that claim to know. What would stop a future Parliament with a Leave majority from creating a new bill to leave the EU without another referendum if article 50 was revoked? Nothing at all. The only potential shenanigan could be a move by the EU to remove the option of Article 50 being used in the future but I would guess that would involve a treaty change and would require numerous other referendums in places such as Ireland to make that happen. Not enough time to rush it through. If they manage to foist a second referendum on us, and Remain win on the back of a much reduced turn-out and less than 17.4 million votes cast for Remain, and revoke based on that then the next election is a straight forward Leave or Remain issue all over again. Article 50 might have to be served again but on the back of a solid Leave majority in Parliament, I suspect would be rushed through or an actual deal worth signing would emerge. The two year period would be effectively the transition phase and I suspect that the EU would not want to hamper it anymore than it has to. Most of the arrangements are already in place. A second referendum will be farcical and destructive enough as it is but a third? LOL. No. The country would implode. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

29 Sep 19 2.20pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Question to those that claim to know.

What would stop a future Parliament with a Leave majority from creating a new bill to leave the EU without another referendum if article 50 was revoked?

Nothing at all. The only potential shenanigan could be a move by the EU to remove the option of Article 50 being used in the future but I would guess that would involve a treaty change and would require numerous other referendums in places such as Ireland to make that happen. Not enough time to rush it through.

If they manage to foist a second referendum on us, and Remain win on the back of a much reduced turn-out and less than 17.4 million votes cast for Remain, and revoke based on that then the next election is a straight forward Leave or Remain issue all over again.

Article 50 might have to be served again but on the back of a solid Leave majority in Parliament, I suspect would be rushed through or an actual deal worth signing would emerge. The two year period would be effectively the transition phase and I suspect that the EU would not want to hamper it anymore than it has to. Most of the arrangements are already in place.

A second referendum will be farcical and destructive enough as it is but a third? LOL. No. The country would implode.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 29 Sep 19 2.29pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I don't think what you have said actually conflicts with my last post. I agree that is his position so it would surely be better to shift the blame for any delay onto others. If he is forced out of office it won't be him that has blinked. Worry not wisbech, looks like you will get your wishes...Corbyn as PM and remain in the 'democratic EU'
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the silurian

The garden of England.(not really) 29 Sep 19 2.29pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I don't think what you have said actually conflicts with my last post.

I agree that is his position so it would surely be better to shift the blame for any delay onto others. If he is forced out of office it won't be him that has blinked.

Worry not wisbech, looks like you will get your wishes...Corbyn as PM and remain in the 'democratic EU'

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the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 29 Sep 19 2.32pm
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I am not writing as a "remainer" and nor are those in Parliament opposing the government's position. I am writing as someone who believes, as I think everyone should, in the supremacy of Parliament over the executive in all situations. My choice of language is not the least emotive. It is factual. The only emotive language continues to be used by people like Johnson in describing an Act of Parliament as a "surrender." Johnson is out of control. He does not have a majority so does not control Parliament and Parliament is where the decisions are taken. Out of control is exactly what he is. That he is behaving as though he still thinks he has things in his own hands doesn't mean he does. He is like a sailor wrestling with the tiller as his boat is driven towards the rocks in a gale and someone else has control of the sails. He is not in control, therefore he is out of control. and what about McDonnell talking about assassinating Thatcher, another Labour MP talking about stabbing someone in the front, not the back....Lammy talking bollox as ever....emotive...no?
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the silurian

The garden of England.(not really) 29 Sep 19 2.32pm

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I am not writing as a "remainer" and nor are those in Parliament opposing the government's position.

I am writing as someone who believes, as I think everyone should, in the supremacy of Parliament over the executive in all situations.

My choice of language is not the least emotive. It is factual. The only emotive language continues to be used by people like Johnson in describing an Act of Parliament as a "surrender."

Johnson is out of control. He does not have a majority so does not control Parliament and Parliament is where the decisions are taken.

Out of control is exactly what he is. That he is behaving as though he still thinks he has things in his own hands doesn't mean he does.

He is like a sailor wrestling with the tiller as his boat is driven towards the rocks in a gale and someone else has control of the sails. He is not in control, therefore he is out of control.

and what about McDonnell talking about assassinating Thatcher, another Labour MP talking about stabbing someone in the front, not the back....Lammy talking bollox as ever....emotive...no?

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Hrolf The Ganger 29 Sep 19 2.32pm
Originally posted by Matov Nothing at all. The only potential shenanigan could be a move by the EU to remove the option of Article 50 being used in the future but I would guess that would involve a treaty change and would require numerous other referendums in places such as Ireland to make that happen. Not enough time to rush it through. If they manage to foist a second referendum on us, and Remain win on the back of a much reduced turn-out and less than 17.4 million votes cast for Remain, and revoke based on that then the next election is a straight forward Leave or Remain issue all over again. Article 50 might have to be served again but on the back of a solid Leave majority in Parliament, I suspect would be rushed through or an actual deal worth signing would emerge. The two year period would be effectively the transition phase and I suspect that the EU would not want to hamper it anymore than it has to. Most of the arrangements are already in place. A second referendum will be farcical and destructive enough as it is but a third? LOL. No. The country would implode. Yes, another referendum would be insane under any circumstances. Since referendum results seem to count for nothing in some people's eyes when they lose, the perfect solution would be for the electorate to vote in as many Leavers as possible, be they Tory or Brexit Party at the coming election, so any success Remainers had at halting Brexit can be erased in the near future.
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Hrolf The Ganger

29 Sep 19 2.32pm

Originally posted by Matov

A second referendum will be farcical and destructive enough as it is but a third? LOL. No. The country would implode.

Yes, another referendum would be insane under any circumstances.

Since referendum results seem to count for nothing in some people's eyes when they lose, the perfect solution would be for the electorate to vote in as many Leavers as possible, be they Tory or Brexit Party at the coming election, so any success Remainers had at halting Brexit can be erased in the near future.

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Badger11 Beckenham 29 Sep 19 2.43pm
Originally posted by the silurian and what about McDonnell talking about assassinating Thatcher, another Labour MP talking about stabbing someone in the front, not the back....Lammy talking bollox as ever....emotive...no? Or the T shirts that the Lib Dems have been wearing Bllcks To Brexit. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 29 Sep 19 2.43pm

Originally posted by the silurian

and what about McDonnell talking about assassinating Thatcher, another Labour MP talking about stabbing someone in the front, not the back....Lammy talking bollox as ever....emotive...no?

Or the T shirts that the Lib Dems have been wearing
B*ll*cks To Brexit.

One more point

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Matov 29 Sep 19 3.22pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Yes, another referendum would be insane under any circumstances. Since referendum results seem to count for nothing in some people's eyes when they lose, the perfect solution would be for the electorate to vote in as many Leavers as possible, be they Tory or Brexit Party at the coming election, so any success Remainers had at halting Brexit can be erased in the near future. Absolutely. Any and every referendum held against a background of the June 23rd one not being honoured become nothing more the democratic onanism. Utterly futile and with impotence that renders it only worthy of mocking. It is what I struggle with so much in terms of this 'Peoples vote' nonsense. Nobody would take it seriously and renders any victory for 'Remain' utterly phyric. Achieves nothing, does not put the Brexit Genie back into any bottle, only making it even more enraged than it was before. And yes, people will hopefully now have a clear choice come the next GE between parties who want to stop Brexit and those who want to honour it. Nice and simple. Cannot wait for it because it settles it, at least for the next 5 years. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

29 Sep 19 3.22pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Yes, another referendum would be insane under any circumstances.

Absolutely. Any and every referendum held against a background of the June 23rd one not being honoured become nothing more the democratic onanism. Utterly futile and with impotence that renders it only worthy of mocking.

It is what I struggle with so much in terms of this 'Peoples vote' nonsense. Nobody would take it seriously and renders any victory for 'Remain' utterly phyric. Achieves nothing, does not put the Brexit Genie back into any bottle, only making it even more enraged than it was before.

And yes, people will hopefully now have a clear choice come the next GE between parties who want to stop Brexit and those who want to honour it. Nice and simple. Cannot wait for it because it settles it, at least for the next 5 years.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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