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peterg Anerley 11 Dec 23 3.39pm
Originally posted by Willo Referees make honest decisions and certainly do NOT go out on the field of play with the intention of favouring one team over the other. In the PL, the referees undergo a 'Forensic' examination of their performances and do not want to be in the position where they are constantly criticised for their decisions.Referees err from time to time but they are honest misdemeanours made in the heat of battle. Apropos fouls, as I have already asserted not every foul is worthy of a card and cards are issued for a plethora of reasons not just for robust actions by players. Finally, clearly the comment about Mark Clattenburg celebrating on the Man Utd coach was made in jest. True point about Mark Clusterf***. However he did embrace Ferguson in the tunnel before the match. The right place at the right time
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peterg

Anerley 11 Dec 23 3.39pm

Originally posted by Willo

Referees make honest decisions and certainly do NOT go out on the field of play with the intention of favouring one team over the other.
In the PL, the referees undergo a 'Forensic' examination of their performances and do not want to be in the position where they are constantly criticised for their decisions.Referees err from time to time but they are honest misdemeanours made in the heat of battle.

Apropos fouls, as I have already asserted not every foul is worthy of a card and cards are issued for a plethora of reasons not just for robust actions by players.

Finally, clearly the comment about Mark Clattenburg celebrating on the Man Utd coach was made in jest.

True point about Mark Clusterf***. However he did embrace Ferguson in the tunnel before the match.

The right place at the right time

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Plumpton eagle East Sussex 11 Dec 23 3.46pm
Willo My view is that the yellow was justified. It was brandished because it was a foul and prevented a counter-attack. ----------------------------------------------------------------- From Ref Watch on Sky Sports: 'Ayew should not have had second booking' INCIDENT: Jordan Ayew was sent off after receiving two bookings in the space of 15 minutes. His second booking was for a foul on Harvey Elliott on the halfway line. Was it enough to be sent off? DERMOT SAYS: "I thought not [a second booking]. All I can think is the referee thinks Ayew is breaking a promising attack, which he's not."
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Plumpton eagle

East Sussex 11 Dec 23 3.46pm

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Willo

My view is that the yellow was justified. It was brandished because it was a foul and prevented a counter-attack.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

From Ref Watch on Sky Sports:

'Ayew should not have had second booking'

INCIDENT: Jordan Ayew was sent off after receiving two bookings in the space of 15 minutes. His second booking was for a foul on Harvey Elliott on the halfway line.

Was it enough to be sent off?

DERMOT SAYS: "I thought not [a second booking]. All I can think is the referee thinks Ayew is breaking a promising attack, which he's not."

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palace chick South Croydon 11 Dec 23 3.47pm
Originally posted by Painter You can carry on defending the indefensible, there is no way Ayews tackle deserved a second yellow, it wasn’t a dangerous tackle, the player wasn’t clear on goal. If Ayew had been persistently fouling all game, I could understand, but he wasn’t. No doubt the decision changed the game and it continued Madleys run of never refereeing a Liverpool defeat. I think that’s my biggest issue rather than the penalty not being allowed. The ref showed throughout the first 90 minutes that Palace and not Liverpool was getting yellows. Liverpool like most of the top 6 playing against the lesser sides seem to get looked after by referees better. I doubt it’s deliberate but it does stop them getting a hard time from the big 6 and perhaps not being chosen again for the bigger matches? I still think we were hard done by on Saturday but agree like all club fans I can be biased :-)
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palace chick

South Croydon 11 Dec 23 3.47pm

Originally posted by Painter

You can carry on defending the indefensible, there is no way Ayews tackle deserved a second yellow, it wasn’t a dangerous tackle, the player wasn’t clear on goal. If Ayew had been persistently fouling all game, I could understand, but he wasn’t.
No doubt the decision changed the game and it continued Madleys
run of never refereeing a Liverpool defeat.

I think that’s my biggest issue rather than the penalty not being allowed. The ref showed throughout the first 90 minutes that Palace and not Liverpool was getting yellows. Liverpool like most of the top 6 playing against the lesser sides seem to get looked after by referees better. I doubt it’s deliberate but it does stop them getting a hard time from the big 6 and perhaps not being chosen again for the bigger matches? I still think we were hard done by on Saturday but agree like all club fans I can be biased :-)

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Eaglecoops CR3 11 Dec 23 4.28pm
Originally posted by Willo I cannot understand how one can remove "Subjectivity" entirely from refereeing.This is integral to many decision making processes in a game.Referees are not robots and have to make decisions based on what they have seen in high-pressure situations in a fast-moving game. Apropos Ayew, he came from the side of Van Dijk and purposely stood in front of Van Dijk and the ball preventing a quick restart so I can understand why the referee brandished a Yellow. Had he been a tad more subtle he might have got away with it !! If you watch it again, I’m not sure what the free kick was for however Van Dijk jumped up in the air, caught it with two hands, put it on the floor and kicked it at Ayew within a few seconds. Was it taken from the right place? Certainly no spray from the ref. Not even sure Ayew knew 100% what was happening and then jumped in the air to avoid the ball when Van Dijk kicked it at him but still got booked. This also happened on the half way line, hardly a goal scoring position.The whole thing smacked of Van Dijk trying to get him booked which is disgusting. Imagine if every free kick was aimed at someone not standing 10 yards away? What is the referee going to do then?
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Eaglecoops

CR3 11 Dec 23 4.28pm

Originally posted by Willo

I cannot understand how one can remove "Subjectivity" entirely from refereeing.This is integral to many decision making processes in a game.Referees are not robots and have to make decisions based on what they have seen in high-pressure situations in a fast-moving game.

Apropos Ayew, he came from the side of Van Dijk and purposely stood in front of Van Dijk and the ball preventing a quick restart so I can understand why the referee brandished a Yellow.
Had he been a tad more subtle he might have got away with it !!

If you watch it again, I’m not sure what the free kick was for however Van Dijk jumped up in the air, caught it with two hands, put it on the floor and kicked it at Ayew within a few seconds. Was it taken from the right place? Certainly no spray from the ref. Not even sure Ayew knew 100% what was happening and then jumped in the air to avoid the ball when Van Dijk kicked it at him but still got booked.

This also happened on the half way line, hardly a goal scoring position.The whole thing smacked of Van Dijk trying to get him booked which is disgusting. Imagine if every free kick was aimed at someone not standing 10 yards away? What is the referee going to do then?

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palace99 New Mills 11 Dec 23 5.12pm
Originally posted by Willo "Clear and Obvious" is of course open to subjectivity. For me there should be a 1 minute limit on all decisions. If after 60 seconds there is still uncertainty then it is not clear and obvious, so go with the on field decision. If cricket can introduce a umpires call for close LBWs then it shouldn't be too hard for football to do similar.
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palace99

New Mills 11 Dec 23 5.12pm

Originally posted by Willo

"Clear and Obvious" is of course open to subjectivity.

For me there should be a 1 minute limit on all decisions. If after 60 seconds there is still uncertainty then it is not clear and obvious, so go with the on field decision.

If cricket can introduce a umpires call for close LBWs then it shouldn't be too hard for football to do similar.

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 11 Dec 23 5.16pm
Originally posted by Plumpton eagle Willo My view is that the yellow was justified. It was brandished because it was a foul and prevented a counter-attack. ----------------------------------------------------------------- From Ref Watch on Sky Sports: 'Ayew should not have had second booking' INCIDENT: Jordan Ayew was sent off after receiving two bookings in the space of 15 minutes. His second booking was for a foul on Harvey Elliott on the halfway line. Was it enough to be sent off? DERMOT SAYS: "I thought not [a second booking]. All I can think is the referee thinks Ayew is breaking a promising attack, which he's not." This is the view of Dermot Gallagher. If one sought the opinions of current and erstwhile senior referees I would suggest there would not be universal agreement. Edited by Willo (11 Dec 2023 5.17pm)
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 11 Dec 23 5.16pm

Originally posted by Plumpton eagle

Willo

My view is that the yellow was justified. It was brandished because it was a foul and prevented a counter-attack.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

From Ref Watch on Sky Sports:

Was it enough to be sent off?

DERMOT SAYS: "I thought not [a second booking]. All I can think is the referee thinks Ayew is breaking a promising attack, which he's not."

This is the view of Dermot Gallagher.
If one sought the opinions of current and erstwhile senior referees I would suggest there would not be universal agreement.

Edited by Willo (11 Dec 2023 5.17pm)

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eagleman13 On The Road To Hell & Alicante 11 Dec 23 6.12pm
Originally posted by Willo This is the view of Dermot Gallagher. If one sought the opinions of current and erstwhile senior referees I would suggest there would not be universal agreement. Edited by Willo (11 Dec 2023 5.17pm) Kind of agree, BUT, are the views of ex FIFA refs to be discarded just because they are no longer current? This operation, will make the 'Charge Of The Light Brigade' seem like a simple military exercise.
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eagleman13

On The Road To Hell & Alicante 11 Dec 23 6.12pm

Originally posted by Willo

This is the view of Dermot Gallagher.
If one sought the opinions of current and erstwhile senior referees I would suggest there would not be universal agreement.

Edited by Willo (11 Dec 2023 5.17pm)

Kind of agree, BUT, are the views of ex FIFA refs to be discarded just because they are no longer current?

This operation, will make the 'Charge Of The Light Brigade' seem like a simple military exercise.

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Painter Croydon 11 Dec 23 6.26pm
Originally posted by Willo My view is that the yellow was justified. It was brandished because it was a foul and prevented a counter-attack. You are own your own, with your blinkered view. As there were 4 Palace players between the foul, which was in Liverpools half and our goal. On your view, all fouls could be considered to be preventing a counter attack. I have not heard any pundit, ex player or referee say it deserved a booking, let alone a second booking leading to a sending off. The majority treat it with incredulity.
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Painter

Croydon 11 Dec 23 6.26pm

Originally posted by Willo

My view is that the yellow was justified. It was brandished because it was a foul and prevented a counter-attack.

You are own your own, with your blinkered view. As there were 4 Palace players between the foul, which was in Liverpools half and our goal. On your view, all fouls could be considered to be preventing a counter attack.
I have not heard any pundit, ex player or referee say it deserved a booking, let alone a second booking leading to a sending off. The majority treat it with incredulity.

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 11 Dec 23 7.06pm
Originally posted by Painter You are own your own, with your blinkered view. As there were 4 Palace players between the foul, which was in Liverpools half and our goal. On your view, all fouls could be considered to be preventing a counter attack. I have not heard any pundit, ex player or referee say it deserved a booking, let alone a second booking leading to a sending off. The majority treat it with incredulity. Absolutely not the case. I stand 'Gummed' to my position that Ayew stopped a promising counter attack and as such was given a Yellow.It is perfectly feasible to be given a Yellow for preventing a counter-attack even though the foul is committed far from goal. We shall have to agree to disagree on this matter. Edited by Willo (11 Dec 2023 7.06pm)
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 11 Dec 23 7.06pm

Originally posted by Painter

You are own your own, with your blinkered view. As there were 4 Palace players between the foul, which was in Liverpools half and our goal. On your view, all fouls could be considered to be preventing a counter attack.
I have not heard any pundit, ex player or referee say it deserved a booking, let alone a second booking leading to a sending off. The majority treat it with incredulity.

Absolutely not the case.

I stand 'Gummed' to my position that Ayew stopped a promising counter attack and as such was given a Yellow.It is perfectly feasible to be given a Yellow for preventing a counter-attack even though the foul is committed far from goal.

We shall have to agree to disagree on this matter.

Edited by Willo (11 Dec 2023 7.06pm)

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the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 11 Dec 23 7.13pm
Originally posted by Willo Absolutely not the case. I stand 'Gummed' to my position that Ayew stopped a promising counter attack and as such was given a Yellow.It is perfectly feasible to be given a Yellow for preventing a counter-attack even though the foul is committed far from goal. We shall have to agree to disagree on this matter. Edited by Willo (11 Dec 2023 7.06pm) and yet not one of liverpools fouls was deemed worthy of a yellow? incompetence? bias? corruption? or all 3?
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the silurian

The garden of England.(not really) 11 Dec 23 7.13pm

Originally posted by Willo

Absolutely not the case.

We shall have to agree to disagree on this matter.

Edited by Willo (11 Dec 2023 7.06pm)

and yet not one of liverpools fouls was deemed worthy of a yellow?

incompetence? bias? corruption? or all 3?

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Hannes Vienna 11 Dec 23 7.14pm
Originally posted by Willo Absolutely not the case. I stand 'Gummed' to my position that Ayew stopped a promising counter attack and as such was given a Yellow.It is perfectly feasible to be given a Yellow for preventing a counter-attack even though the foul is committed far from goal. We shall have to agree to disagree on this matter. Edited by Willo (11 Dec 2023 7.06pm) Did you count how often Liverpool comitted the fouls you mentioned in the first half and how many yellows they collected for them?
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Hannes

Vienna 11 Dec 23 7.14pm

Originally posted by Willo

Absolutely not the case.

We shall have to agree to disagree on this matter.

Edited by Willo (11 Dec 2023 7.06pm)

Did you count how often Liverpool comitted the fouls you mentioned in the first half and how many yellows they collected for them?

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the silurian The garden of England.(not really) 11 Dec 23 7.24pm
Originally posted by Willo I cannot understand how one can remove "Subjectivity" entirely from refereeing.This is integral to many decision making processes in a game.Referees are not robots and have to make decisions based on what they have seen in high-pressure situations in a fast-moving game. Apropos Ayew, he came from the side of Van Dijk and purposely stood in front of Van Dijk and the ball preventing a quick restart so I can understand why the referee brandished a Yellow. Had he been a tad more subtle he might have got away with it !! had van pryk stood in front of one of our free kicks and ayew had kicked the ball at him van pryk would not have been booked but ayew probably would have been . whatever you say or think willo madeley IS a cheat and a Liverpool fanboy
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the silurian

The garden of England.(not really) 11 Dec 23 7.24pm

Originally posted by Willo

had van pryk stood in front of one of our free kicks and ayew had kicked the ball at him van pryk would not have been booked but ayew probably would have been . whatever you say or think willo madeley IS a cheat and a Liverpool fanboy

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